Freethought & Rationalism Archive

punta · 09-26-2003, 06:22 PM

on another board i hang out on a poster is pot shotting jews (and gays but that's another issue).

unfortunately i'm not familiar enough with Judaism to know how much of this is true. any help would be greatly appreciated.

here are the religous claims posted so far:

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Judaism is the only reigion based on racism...in all other religions you become what you become as a result of change or conversion to a belief.

But in the case of Judaism...you have to be born one...and you can only be a Jew if your mother is a Jew...
If you analyse this carefully, you will see that waht this means is that so-called Jewish Men could father children, but who would not be considered Jews.

The press talks about what other religions do to women who marry outside of their religion...
Perhaps one day I will give you instances of what happens to Jewish women who marry outside of their religion without permission...

When the marriage is outside of the religion it is a strategy...
Here is one strategy...Kofi Anan' wife is a Jew!.

If you read through to the end you will see that you are goyim.

If only one person reads this it would have been worth posting.

Just letting you know what what Jews think about the Non-Jews...lest you think that they are grateful for your support.

If Christians spoke Hebrew and read the Talmud/Current Jewish Book of Laws, not the one given to Moses, but the one which they interpolated and from which much indeed all of Christianity developed...one would see the two truths of both religions...but alas...the world is kept in the dark about Hebrew(killed by the speakers so that literature written in it would stay hidden. hmmmmm:think:

Just want you to know that is one of the reasons Latin was killed or declared dead ...was to keep Literature...and Law, Science and Medicine which uses Latin to the exclusion of all other Latin for its terminology... in the hands of a few, and away from the rest.

You will have remembered those who read my long posts, that I said language was alienative and integrative...

Some of us made the time to study these dead languages...and guess what it says about Non-Jews.

One day perhaps, I will give some translated quotes from the Torah and the Talmud, so Christian and Non-Jews can see that they are considered filthy and servants of Jews...
Then you will no longer wonder why Israel rules America and are trying to rule the world by proxy...

It also explains why American suffer, but Israel gets billions every year...just because they exist, and control Americans...

But the day will come when America will be cast aside just as they did Britain. .

...From the Bible

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"I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. " --Romans 1:16 NIV .

"Destroy all of the land ; beat down their pillars and break their statues and waste all of their high places, cleaning the land and dwelling in it, for I have given in to you a possession." --.Old Testament : Numbers: 33:52-53 .

"For you are a people holy to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for his own possession, out of all the peoples that are on the face of the earth." -- Deuteronomy 7:6

"When you draw near to a city to fight against it, offer terms of peace to it. And if its answer to you is peace and it opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall do forced labor for you and shall serve you.

But if it makes no peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it; and when the LORD your God gives it into your hand you shall put all its males to the sword, but the women and the little ones, the cattle, and everything else in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourseves; and you shall enjoy the spoil of your enemies, which the LORD your God has given you.

Thus you shall do to all the cities which are very far from you, which are not cities of the nations here. But in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God gives you for an inheritance, you shall save nothing that breathes . . ." --Deuteronomy 20:10-16

"And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed, nor shall its sovereignty be left to another people. It shall break into pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand for ever . . ." -- Daniel 2:44

(The Israelites) warred against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and slew every male. . . . And the people of Israel took captive the women of Midian and their little ones; and they took as booty all their cattle, their flocks, and all their goods. All their cities in the places where they dwelt, and all their encampments, they burned with fire, and took all the spoil and all the booty, both of man and of beast . . .

Moses said to them, "Have you let all the women live? . . . Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." -- Numbers 31:7-18

"He [the Jew] should not press his fellow [Jew] for payment . . . the foreigner [Gentile] you may press for payment." --Deuteronomy 15: 2-3

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"You must not make your brother pay interest, interest on money, interest on food, interest on anything on which one may claim interest. You may make a foreigner [Gentile] pay interest but your brother [fellow Jew] you must not make pay interest." -- Deuteronomy 23: 19-20
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USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA "Foreigners (Gentiles) shall rebuild your walls, and their kings shall minister to you . . . Your gates shall be open continuously; day and night they shall not be shut; that men may bring to you the wealth of the nations, with their kings led in procession. For the nation or kingdom that will not not serve you; shall perish; those nations shall be utterly laid waste. . . ." Isaiah 60:10-12
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USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA
"You shall suck the milk of nations, you shall suck the breast of kings; and you shall know that I, the LORD, am your Savior and your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob." -- Isaiah 60:16

"And strangers [Gentiles] shall stand and feed your flocks, strangers shall be your plowmen and vinedressers; but you shall be called the priests of the LORD, men shall speak of you as the ministers of our God; you shall eat the wealth of the nations, and in their riches you shall glory." -- Isaiah 61:5-6

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Poster's Note

I am sure you know the Christians believe these words the people of largely Hebraic beliefs attributed to God...their God...and God know there is no truth in this statement...because these people are a people that have changed there books from the beginning.

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From The Talmud

"The decisions of the Talmud are words of the living God. Jehovah himself asks the opinions of earthly rabbis when there are difficult affairs in heaven."

-- Rabbi Menachen, Comments for the Fifth Book "Jehovah himself in heaven studies the Talmud, standing: he has such respect for that book."
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-- Tractate Mechilla/Me'ilah
"The decisions of the Talmud are words of the living God. Jehovah himself asks the opinions of earthly rabbis when there are difficult affairs in heaven."

-- Rabbi Menachen, Comments for the Fifth Book
"To communicate anything to a Goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the Goyim knew what we teach about them, they would kill us openly."
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You dam-n right about that one...

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--Libbre David 37
"A Jew should and must make a false oath when the Goyim asks if our books contain anything against them."
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--Szaaloth-Utszabot, The Book of Jore Dia 17
"We beg Thee, O Lord, indict Thy wrath on the nations not believing in Thee, and not calling on Thy name. Let down Thy wrath on them and inflict them with Thy wrath. Drive them away in Thy wrath and crush them into pieces.

Take away, O Lord, all bone from them. In a moment indict all disbelievers.

Destroy in a moment all foes of Thy nation. Draw out with the root, disperse and ruin unworthy nations. Destroy them! Destroy them immediately, in this very moment!"

-- Prayer said on the eve of Passover (Pranajtis: Christianus in Talmudae Judeorum, quotations from: Synagoga Judaica)
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"The Feast of Tabernacles is the period when Israel triumphs over the other people of the world. That is why during this feast we seize the loulab and carry it as a trophy to show that we have conquered all other peoples, known as "populace"..."
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-- Zohar, Toldoth Noah 63b
"When the Messiah comes every Jew will have 2800 slaves."

Poster's note...I hope you know that Jesus is not their Messiah...they thought it was Ezra...so their belief is not the same belief that Christians think they share.

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--Simeon Haddarsen, fol. 56-D
"On the house of the Goy [Goy means unclean, and is the disparaging term for a non-Jew] one looks as on the fold of cattle."
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-- Tosefta, Tractate Erubin VIII
"When a Jew has a Gentile in his clutches, another Jew may go to the same Gentile, lend him money and in turn deceive him, so that the Gentile shall be ruined. For the property of a Gentile, according to our law, belongs to no one, and the first Jew that passes has full right to seize it."
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-- Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 156
"If it can be proven that someone has given the money of Israelites to the Goyim, a way must be found after prudent consideration to wipe him off the face of the earth."
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-- Choschen Hamm 388, 15
"The estates of the Goys are like wilderness, who first settles in them has a right to them."

-- Baba Bathra, 14?b

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"Happy will be the lost of Israel, whom the Holy One, blessed be He, has chosen from amongst the Goyim, of whom the Scriptures say:

"Their work is but vanity, it is an illusion at which we must laugh; they will all perish when God visits them in His wrath." At the moment when the Holy One, blessed be He, will exterminate all the Goyim of the world, Israel alone will subsist, even as it is written: "The Lord alone will appear great on that day! . . ."
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-- Zohar, Vayshlah 177b
"That the Jewish nation is the only nation selected by God, while all the remaining ones are contemptible and hateful.

That all property of other nations belongs to the Jewish nation, which consequently is entitled to seize upon it without any scruples. An orthodox Jew is not bound to observe principles of morality towards people of other tribes. He may act contrary to morality, if profitable to himself or to Jews in general.

A Jew may rob a Goy, he may cheat him over a bill, which should not be perceived by him, otherwise the name of God would become dishonoured."
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-- Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat, 348
R. Hanina said: "If a heathen smites a Jew, he is worthy of death; for it is written, And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian.

[Ex. 2:12] R. Hanina also said: He who smites an Israelite on the jaw, is as though he had thus assaulted the Divine Presence; for it is written, one who smiteth man [i.e. an Israelite] attacketh the Holy One."
--Sanhedrin 58b "Kill the Goyim by any means possible."
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--Choshen Ha'mishpat 425:50
"Everyone who sheds the blood of the impious [non-Jews] is as acceptable to God as he who offers a sacrifice to God."
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--Yalkut 245c
"Extermination of the Christians is a necessary sacrifice."
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--Zohar, Shemoth

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"Tob shebbe goyyim harog - Even the best of the Goyim (Gentiles) should be killed."
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--Soferim 15, Rule 10

"ONE SHOULD NOT PLACE CATTLE IN HEATHENS' INNS, BECAUSE THEY ARE SUSPECTED OF IMMORAL PRACTICE WITH THEM. A WOMAN SHOULD NOT BE ALONE WITH THEM, BECAUSE THEY ARE SUSPECTED OF LEWDNESS, NOR SHOULD A MAN BE ALONE WITH THEM, BECAUSE THEY ARE SUSPECTED OF SHEDDING BLOOD. . .

"Why then should we not leave female animals alone with female heathens? - Said Mar 'Ukba b. Hama: Because heathens frequent their neighbours' wives, and should one by chance not find her in, and find the cattle there, he might use it immorally. You may also say that even if he should find her in he might use the animal, as a Master has said: Heathens prefer the cattle of Israelites to their own wives, for R. Johanan said: When the serpent came unto Eve he infused filthy lust into her."
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--Avodah Zarah 22a-b
"All Israelites will have a part in the future world . . . The Goyim, at the end of the world will be handed over to the angel Duma and sent down to hell."
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--Zohar, Shemoth, Toldoth Noah, Lekh-Lekha

Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night.
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Midrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L

"Everything a Jew needs for his church ritual no goy is permitted to manufacture, but only a Jew, because this must be manufactured by human beings and the Jew is not permitted to consider the goyim as human beings.'
--Schulchan Oruch, Orach Chaiw 14, 20, 32, 33, 39. TaIDud Jebamoth 61
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"A Jew may do to a non-Jewess what he can do. He may treat her as he treats a piece of meat."
Hadarine, 20, B; Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 348
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"A Jew may violate but not marry a non-Jewish girl."
Gad. Shas. 2:2
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"A boy-goy after nine years and one day old, and a girl after three years and one day old, are considered filthy."
--Pereferkowicz, Talmud t.v., p. 11
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"[The daughters of the heathens] should be considered as in the state of niddah [filth] from their cradle . . ."
-- Avodah Zarah 36b
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"They decreed in connection with a heathen child that it should cause defilement by seminal emission so that an Israelite child should not become accustomed to commit pederasty with him. . . . It is therefore to be concluded that a heathen girl [communicates defilement] from the age of three years and one day, for inasmuch as she is then capable of the sexual act she likewise defiles by a flux. This is obvious!"
-- Avodah Zarah 36b-37a
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" R. Joseph said: "Come and hear! A maiden aged three years and a day may be acquired in marriage by coition [intercourse], and if her deceased husband's brother cohabits with her, she becomes his.

The penalty of adultery may be incurred through her; [if a niddah] she defiles him who has connection with her, so that he in turn defiles that upon which he lies, as a garment which has lain upon [a person afflicted with gonorrhoea]."
--Sanhedrin 55b
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"Rab said: "Pederasty with a child below nine years of age is not deemed as pederasty with a child above that. Samuel said: Pederasty with a child below three years is not treated as with a child above that.24 (24) I.e., Rab makes nine years the minimum; but if one committed sodomy with a child of lesser age, no guilt is incurred. Samuel makes three the minimum."
-- Sanhedrin 54b
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Raba said. "It means this: When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing, for when the girl is less than this [three years old], it is as if one puts the finger into the eye; but when a small boy has intercourse with a grown-up woman he makes her as 'a girl who is injured by a piece of wood.' . . ."
-- Kethuboth 11b
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"Do not save Goyim in danger of death.
Show no mercy to the Goyim."
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-- Hilkkoth Akum X1

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"A Jew is forbidden to drink from a glass of wine which a Gentile has touched, because the touch has made the wine unclean."
-- Schulchan Aruch, Johre Deah, 122
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"And he who desires that none of his vows made during the year shall be valid, let him stand at the beginning of the year and declare, 'Every vow which I may make in the future shall be null.1 [HIS VOWS ARE THEN INVALID,] PROVIDING THAT HE REMEMBERS THIS AT THE TIME OF THE VOW."
--Nedarim 23b
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"The modern Jew is the product of the Talmud..."
"Babylonian Talmud", published by the Boston Talmud Society, p. XII
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"The Jews are called human beings, but the non-Jews are not humans. They are beasts."
--Talmud: Baba mezia, 114b
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"The Akum (non-Jew) is like a dog. Yes, the scripture teaches to honor the the dog more than the non-Jew."
-- Ereget Raschi Erod. 22 30
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"Even though God created the non-Jew they are still animals in human form. It is not becoming for a Jew to be served by an animal. Therfore he will be served by animals in human form."
-- Midrasch Talpioth, p. 255, Warsaw 1855
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"A pregnant non-Jew is no better than a pregnant animal."
-- Coschen hamischpat 405
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"The souls of non-Jews come from impure sprits and are called pigs."
Jalkut Rubeni gadol 12b
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"Although the non-Jew has the same body structure as the Jew, they compare with the Jew like a monkey to a human."
-- Schene luchoth haberith, p. 250 b
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"If you eat with a Gentile, it is the same as eating with a dog."
-- Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b
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"If a Jew has a non-Jewish servant or maid who dies, one should not express sympathy to the Jew. You should tell the Jew: "God will replace 'your loss', just as if one of his oxen or asses had died"."
--Jore dea 377, 1
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"Sexual intercourse between Gentiles is like intercourse between animals."
-- Talmud Sanhedrin 74b
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"It is permitted to take the body and the life of a Gentile."
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-- Sepher ikkarim III c 25

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"It is the law to kill anyone who denies the Torah. The Christians belong to the denying ones of the Torah."
-- Coschen hamischpat 425 Hagah 425. 5
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"A heretic Gentile you may kill outright with your own hands."
-- Talmud, Abodah Zara, 4b
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"Every Jew, who spills the blood of the godless (non-Jews), is doing the same as making a sacrifice to God."
-- Talmud: Bammidber raba c 21 & Jalkut 772
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thanks.

karthik · 09-26-2003, 07:42 PM

Hello Punta:

I guess this link: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Cypr...Response1.html might help disprove some of the calumnies though I seriously doubt it would make a dent in the dense brain of that poster

Peter Kirby · 09-26-2003, 08:18 PM

The Bible does not refer to the USA.

Zoroastrianism is the traditional religion of Persia, which fell to the Muslims in the seventh century, and their numbers have been dwindling ever since. However, the religious leadership disapproves of conversion and rather encourages Zoroastrian boys to marry Zoroastrian girls. This is getting harder and harder, because there are not many communities of Zoroastrians outside of some places in India. Personally, I find this much less obnoxious than religions that encourage missionary efforts and pseudo-charitable acts for the purpose of conversion.

best,
Peter Kirby

punta · 09-26-2003, 09:07 PM

karthik, thank you so much. i have been having a hell of a time locating this guys sources in an online Talmud. it is as i suspected:

out-of-context. mistranslated. completely made up.

but the argument from silence would have been a lame response to it.

punta · 09-26-2003, 09:11 PM

The Bible does not refer to the USA.

this part i get.

Zoroastrianism is the traditional religion of Persia, which fell to the Muslims in the seventh century, and their numbers have been dwindling ever since. However, the religious leadership disapproves of conversion and rather encourages Zoroastrian boys to marry Zoroastrian girls. This is getting harder and harder, because there are not many communities of Zoroastrians outside of some places in India. Personally, I find this much less obnoxious than religions that encourage missionary efforts and pseudo-charitable acts for the purpose of conversion.

best,
Peter Kirby

pardon my ignorance but i'm not sure i understand your point in connection with the Isaiah verses.

added: never mind i realized you are addressing the opening paragraph. thanks.

Peter Kirby · 09-26-2003, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by punta
Zoroastrianism is the traditional religion of Persia, which fell to the Muslims in the seventh century, and their numbers have been dwindling ever since. However, the religious leadership disapproves of conversion and rather encourages Zoroastrian boys to marry Zoroastrian girls. This is getting harder and harder, because there are not many communities of Zoroastrians outside of some places in India. Personally, I find this much less obnoxious than religions that encourage missionary efforts and pseudo-charitable acts for the purpose of conversion.

best,
Peter Kirby

pardon my ignorance but i'm not sure i understand your point in connection with the Isaiah verses.

I am talking about the guy's initial words: "Judaism is the only reigion based on racism...in all other religions you become what you become as a result of change or conversion to a belief. But in the case of Judaism...you have to be born one...and you can only be a Jew if your mother is a Jew... If you analyse this carefully, you will see that waht this means is that so-called Jewish Men could father children, but who would not be considered Jews." In fact heredity as the primary means of transmission is a characteristic of all nationalistic religions. There is obviously a memetic advantage to missionary religions, so Christianity and Islam have more adherents than Judaism and Zoroastrianism, but it is ignorance to say that Judaism is the only such religion, or that this is worse than evangelism.

best,
Peter Kirby

punta · 09-26-2003, 09:18 PM

cross post.

punta · 09-26-2003, 09:27 PM

he now edited his opening paragragh. it now reads:

Quote:

The Torah/Talmud describes an non-Jews as Animal, Non-human, Filthy, to be Violated, Robbed, Cheated, Stolen from and impoverished...no matter which Christian or religion as long as you are non -Jew. you are...

Tell AIPAC, I am willing to defend this...tell them also to carry a copy of the Torah and Talmud et al.

The political system called Judaism is the only religion based on racism...in all (except for another which does not allow intermarriage and conversions, but do not wish to conquer the world and enslave others, or indeed think that others are animals)other religions you become what you become as a result of change or conversion to a belief.

Funny enough in its practice, one can become an honourary Jew by conversion...but is still not a Jew...their resources and some skill are very important as you will see when you read further.

In the case of Judaism which is really Zionism...you have to be born one...and you can only be a Jew if your mother is a Jew...

If you analyse this carefully, you will see that what this means is that so-called Jewish Men could father children, but who would not be considered Jews.

Doctor X · 09-27-2003, 02:13 PM

A fool can raise more questions in a minute then ten wiseman can answer in a day.

A racist fool does more damage.

The idiot selectively looks through literature to find what supports his racism. One could do the same with anti-semitic works of Catholicism or any other religion.

As for a religion founded upon racism, he may have forgotten his own: The Church of Jesus Christ Savior and other permutations of Christian White Supremacy. You can find information on the Southern Poverty Law Center pages.

Welcome to the forums!

--J.D.

Mullibok · 09-27-2003, 02:35 PM

Hahaha, an "honorary" Jew. Is that like a university giving out an honorary degree? And those resources and skill that are needed to become a "real" Jew part of the Evil Jewish Conspiracy to take over the world?

That he's making all this up may be obvious even to him, though I shouldn't hold out that much hope.

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09-26-2003, 07:42 PM	#2
karthik Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 277	Hello Punta: I guess this link: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Cypr...Response1.html might help disprove some of the calumnies though I seriously doubt it would make a dent in the dense brain of that poster

09-26-2003, 08:18 PM	#3
Peter Kirby Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: the reliquary of Ockham's razor Posts: 4,035	The Bible does not refer to the USA. Zoroastrianism is the traditional religion of Persia, which fell to the Muslims in the seventh century, and their numbers have been dwindling ever since. However, the religious leadership disapproves of conversion and rather encourages Zoroastrian boys to marry Zoroastrian girls. This is getting harder and harder, because there are not many communities of Zoroastrians outside of some places in India. Personally, I find this much less obnoxious than religions that encourage missionary efforts and pseudo-charitable acts for the purpose of conversion. best, Peter Kirby

09-26-2003, 09:07 PM	#4
punta Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Can-a-duh! Posts: 148	karthik, thank you so much. i have been having a hell of a time locating this guys sources in an online Talmud. it is as i suspected: out-of-context. mistranslated. completely made up. but the argument from silence would have been a lame response to it.

09-26-2003, 09:11 PM	#5
punta Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Can-a-duh! Posts: 148	The Bible does not refer to the USA. this part i get. Zoroastrianism is the traditional religion of Persia, which fell to the Muslims in the seventh century, and their numbers have been dwindling ever since. However, the religious leadership disapproves of conversion and rather encourages Zoroastrian boys to marry Zoroastrian girls. This is getting harder and harder, because there are not many communities of Zoroastrians outside of some places in India. Personally, I find this much less obnoxious than religions that encourage missionary efforts and pseudo-charitable acts for the purpose of conversion. best, Peter Kirby pardon my ignorance but i'm not sure i understand your point in connection with the Isaiah verses. added: never mind i realized you are addressing the opening paragraph. thanks.

09-26-2003, 09:18 PM	#7
punta Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Can-a-duh! Posts: 148	cross post.

09-27-2003, 02:13 PM	#9
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	A fool can raise more questions in a minute then ten wiseman can answer in a day. A racist fool does more damage. The idiot selectively looks through literature to find what supports his racism. One could do the same with anti-semitic works of Catholicism or any other religion. As for a religion founded upon racism, he may have forgotten his own: The Church of Jesus Christ Savior and other permutations of Christian White Supremacy. You can find information on the Southern Poverty Law Center pages. Welcome to the forums! --J.D.

09-27-2003, 02:35 PM	#10
Mullibok Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: St. Paul, MN Posts: 814	Hahaha, an "honorary" Jew. Is that like a university giving out an honorary degree? And those resources and skill that are needed to become a "real" Jew part of the Evil Jewish Conspiracy to take over the world? That he's making all this up may be obvious even to him, though I shouldn't hold out that much hope.

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