douglas

I'm reading this Infidel article on Messianic prophesies and am amazed at the NT Gospel writers ability to twist OT prophecy to fit Jesus.

With that in mind, which OT passages do you feel most clearly indicate that Jesus can NOT be the Jewish messiah? For me, it's Isaiah 2:4

Arguably, Jesus brought more war, death, and destruction down upon us and has done nothing but tear nations apart. Are there other examples of unfilled messianic prophecies, or did the Gospel writers "dot all their i's and cross all their t's" when it came to crafting a messianic story that positions Jesus as the Jewish messiah?

dzim77

FYI, this can be viewed and IMO, is, an 'end times' prophecy which would be fulfilled after the second coming of Christ.

douglas

I understand this is the traditional Christian view, but I don't believe that's how Isaiah intended it. As far as I know, Isaiah didn't seperate out "Things the messiah will do during his first visit" and "things he will do the next time around." Correct? It's simply a convenient after-the-fact interpretation for Christian to view this as an end time prophecy.

On a side note, if Jesus was going to pick and choose which prophecies to fulfill, why choose to skip this one? Personally, I would rather he fulfilled Isaiah 2:4 and save the "ride a donkey into Jerusalem" one for his second coming. What a dick!

dzim77

Isaiah says the LORD will do these things, "in the last days".

The point is, that you have not shown that Jesus can not be the Messiah from Isaiah 2

Clivedurdle

funny, I thought there were several comments in the NT to the effect that they were living in the last days!

dzim77

The NT indicates that we are living in the last days, culminating with Christ's return, yes. I believe Isa. 2 will be fulfilled with the second coming of Christ.

Again, Isa. 2 doesn't prove that Jesus is not the Messiah.

greyline

"we" meaning... who?

dzim77

"we" meaning living beings on planet earth... is that what you are asking for?

The Evil One

If we (i.e. you and me) are living in the Last Days, then clearly the people alive in NT times weren't. Conversely, they can't have been living in the last days, because look - world still here.

The point is that the expectation was that the Messiah would arrive, do all these assorted things, and those would be the "last days". The expansion of the Messiah's visit into two visits, the latter to be followed by the last days, is a post hoc christian rationalisation of the fact that the Last DAys prophecies were blatantly unfulfilled by Jesus.

greyline

I meant the living beings in which era? In which era do the "we" in this statement live?

"We are living in the last days."

If "we" means all people since Jesus, that's 2000 years of "last days", in which case "last" seems like a strange adjective to use. It could just as likely mean another 2000 years in the future, or 200,000 years.

If "we" means 21st century people, where does Jesus specify he meant people living ~2000 years after him?