Freethought & Rationalism Archive

GaryP · 07-23-2005, 06:11 AM

Saw this article today. The thing that caught my eye (and stirred me up a little) was this;

Even without new evidence, de Bry, before leaving for Cairo in June, said, ''We can no longer deny that there is a certain degree of truth to the tradition of the Holy Family in Egypt, a tradition based on a collective memory of historical events. The burden of proof is not on those who believe in the tradition but those who do not.''

http://miva.jacksonsun.com/miva/cgi-...00507237395771

Mr. De Bry apparently is the director of the Center for Historical Archaeology in Florida.

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/caribarch/chaweb.htm

What do you think of this? Is there any evidence that Jesus was in Egypt and how can a scientist say that the burden of proof is on those who do not believe he was there?

Amaleq13 · 07-23-2005, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaryP

Is there any evidence that Jesus was in Egypt and how can a scientist say that the burden of proof is on those who do not believe he was there?

With regard to your question about evidence, I think the answer is "Not any that can be reliably dated to the 1st century". With regard to your question about why a scientist would want to shift the burden, the answer is "See previous answer and $$$$$".

Quote:

The film shows many scenes and images, all of which are based on the centuries-old oral traditions and documents gathered by the Coptic Church but not on any new archaeological or documentary evidence.

"Centuries-old oral traditions and documents" but nothing new?

This looks like a case of "We've got nothing but I bet you can't prove our speculation is wrong" nonsense.

On the other hand, he is technically correct since zero would constitute a "certain degree of truth".

offa · 07-23-2005, 08:37 PM

Egypt? Where was that? The Jews were never near the "Valley of the Kings". Abraham was never in Damascus, Syria. The Jews of antiquity have a label problem. Maybe we can solve a lot of problems when we derive the latitude and longitude of the Scriptoral "Egypt".

Toto · 07-24-2005, 12:20 AM

Paul Perry, who has written about near death experiences, is the inspiration for this. He has written Jesus in Egypt

From booklist:

Quote:

The paucity of biblical information on the topic led Perry to the Gnostic gospels and the oral tradition of the Coptic Church. At first, as he reconstructs and then follows the trail, drinking water from healing wells and casting an eye on the bones of saints, it seems as if he simply believes the journey to have been a real event, but eventually he begins to wonder whether he is following "a complete fiction." Finally, though, he sees himself as a believer who "let his heart be his guide," concluding that it may not matter if the events are factual. Similarly, the most compelling part of his book isn't the quest itself but the stories of the people he meets along the way: the woman metal worker in what is truly a man's world, or the Coptic priests and monks who help him see in new ways.

It sounds more New Age than historical.

07-23-2005, 06:11 AM	#1
GaryP Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lancaster, OH Posts: 1,792	Movie- "Jesus in Egypt" Saw this article today. The thing that caught my eye (and stirred me up a little) was this; Even without new evidence, de Bry, before leaving for Cairo in June, said, ''We can no longer deny that there is a certain degree of truth to the tradition of the Holy Family in Egypt, a tradition based on a collective memory of historical events. The burden of proof is not on those who believe in the tradition but those who do not.'' http://miva.jacksonsun.com/miva/cgi-...00507237395771 Mr. De Bry apparently is the director of the Center for Historical Archaeology in Florida. http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/caribarch/chaweb.htm What do you think of this? Is there any evidence that Jesus was in Egypt and how can a scientist say that the burden of proof is on those who do not believe he was there?

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07-23-2005, 08:37 PM	#3
offa Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Monroeville, Ohio, USA Posts: 440	Egypt? Where was that? The Jews were never near the "Valley of the Kings". Abraham was never in Damascus, Syria. The Jews of antiquity have a label problem. Maybe we can solve a lot of problems when we derive the latitude and longitude of the Scriptoral "Egypt".

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