Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Ted Hoffman · 09-07-2004, 02:02 AM

Do you know of this theory and is it a respectable theory?

"Entheogens are plants or chemicals that produce religious experience."

Quote:

From Jonathan Ott's The Angels' Dictionary, in the volume The Age of Entheogens

Entheogen -- Plant Sacraments or shamanic inebriants evoking religious Ecstasy or vision; commonly used in the archaic world in Divination for shamanic healing, and in Holy Communion, for example during the Initiation to the Eleusinian Mysteries or the Vedic Soma sacrifice. Literally: becoming divine within. (1979 Ruck, Journal of Psychedelic Drugs 11:145. In Greek the word entheos means literally 'god (theos) within'... In combination with the Greek root -gen, which denotes the action of 'becoming,' this word results in the term that we are proposing: entheogen. 1980 Wasson: The Wondrous Mushroom, xiv ... )

Entheogen nov. verb.: 'God within us', those plant substances that, when ingested, give one a divine experience, in the past commonly called 'hallucinogens', 'psychedelics', 'psychoto-mimetics', etc etc, to each of which serious objections can be made. A group headed by the Greek scholar Carl A. P. Ruck advances 'entheogen' as fully filling the need, notably catching the rich cultural resonances evoked by the substances, many of them fungal, over vast areas of the world in proto- and prehistory.... We favor the adoption of this word. Early Man, throughout much of Eurasia and the Americas, discovered the properties of these substances and regarded them with profound respect and even awe, hedging them about with bonds of secrecy. We are now rediscovering the secret and we should treat the 'entheogens' with the respect to which they were richly entitled. As we undertake to explore their rôle in the early history of religions, we should call them by a name unvulgarized by hippy abuse.

R. Gordon Wasson. The Wondrous Mushroom:
Mycolatry in Mesoamerica (NY: McGraw-Hill, 1980), xiv"

More on Entheogens Here
I also found the following passage when going through the site:

Quote:

...and now that Peter Kirby has discovered the ahistoricity of the Paul figure...

Is this true? check here

Peter Kirby · 09-07-2004, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted Hoffman

Is this true?

I did make a playful and largely incoherent post to JM on that theme, with some parallels to MJ arguments. Someone replied, asking whether I was using a reductio ad absurdum to prove 'Jesus', and I said that he could take of it what he wanted. What I take from it is that we are selective in what we choose to put under the microscope.

best,
Peter Kirby

Ted Hoffman · 09-07-2004, 05:13 AM

Thanks for the clarification Kirby.

Magdlyn · 09-08-2004, 06:09 AM

There are arguments that manna was a hallucinogenic mushroom, that the annointing oil of the ancient Hebrews contained large amounts of cannabis sativa. Certainly the Rev of John seems drug induced. Can we assume the levitical priesthood was of a shamanic nature, with ecstasy enhanced by plants? Why not explore this idea?

amanita mushroom:

http://www.egodeath.com/index.html#_...s_and_Religion

cannabis:

http://www.forbiddenfruitpublishing....kanehbosm.html

Toto · 09-08-2004, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted Hoffman

Do you know of this theory and is it a respectable theory?

"Entheogens are plants or chemicals that produce religious experience."

It is respectable among anthropologists. However, among current New Testament scholars, it is an invitation to professional suicide.

Everything we know about entheogens and Christianity is probably to be found in the famous thread Did Jesus Use Cannabis?

Magdlyn · 09-08-2004, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

It is respectable among anthropologists. However, among current New Testament scholars, it is an invitation to professional suicide.
]

Hm. And why would that be, I wonder? Biblical scholars all just say not to drugs? Pretend the native Americans had them, but somehow Middle Easterners did not? Hallucenogenic just plants did not grow in JesusLand?
/sarcasm

Chili · 09-09-2004, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted Hoffman

Do you know of this theory and is it a respectable theory?

"Entheogens are plants or chemicals that produce religious experience."

Like in getting born again over and over again? and whenever you sober up you lost your salvation again?

What else is there Ted? Having intercourse with the devil?

Chili · 09-09-2004, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

It is respectable among anthropologists. [/URL]

Yes but did Plato not think that anthropology was a science for dummies?

Chuck Rightmire · 09-09-2004, 08:17 PM

Some time during the 1960s there were books written that the experiences given by LSD users were very much like descriptions given by those who had religious experiences. The major difference was that colors were brighter in the LSD experiences. I can't cite the source now, it's been some 40 years ago. But peyote, a hallucinogenic is still being used by the Native American (Christian) church in the west.

Clivedurdle · 09-10-2004, 06:51 AM

Don't be rude about anthropologists! The other reason anthropology is not liked by biblically minded people is because it contains trenchant criticism of missionaries, and fascinating examples, like the cargo cults!

But beware of Castenada, it looks like he made it all up!

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09-07-2004, 05:13 AM	#3
Ted Hoffman Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: "" Posts: 3,863	Thanks for the clarification Kirby.

09-08-2004, 06:09 AM	#4
Magdlyn Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 2,230	There are arguments that manna was a hallucinogenic mushroom, that the annointing oil of the ancient Hebrews contained large amounts of cannabis sativa. Certainly the Rev of John seems drug induced. Can we assume the levitical priesthood was of a shamanic nature, with ecstasy enhanced by plants? Why not explore this idea? amanita mushroom: http://www.egodeath.com/index.html#_...s_and_Religion cannabis: http://www.forbiddenfruitpublishing....kanehbosm.html

09-09-2004, 08:17 PM	#9
Chuck Rightmire Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Billings, Montana Posts: 451	Some time during the 1960s there were books written that the experiences given by LSD users were very much like descriptions given by those who had religious experiences. The major difference was that colors were brighter in the LSD experiences. I can't cite the source now, it's been some 40 years ago. But peyote, a hallucinogenic is still being used by the Native American (Christian) church in the west.

09-10-2004, 06:51 AM	#10
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	Don't be rude about anthropologists! The other reason anthropology is not liked by biblically minded people is because it contains trenchant criticism of missionaries, and fascinating examples, like the cargo cults! But beware of Castenada, it looks like he made it all up!

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