Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Doug Shaver · 08-09-2006, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ggazoo

Both accounts are factual

Why should anyone think so?

I mean . . . besides the fact that you say so?

Loomis · 08-09-2006, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

With about about the same degree of accuracy of knowledge as claiming to know the number of planets and moons in Orion's Belt.

about about :banghead:

Loomis · 08-09-2006, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by One_Of_Logic

This guy was made to suffer, apparently. And if "life" means nothing, then why do we live in the first place? Why don't all atheists just go out and kill themselves? Why do you resort to attacking someone? You're representing your religion badly, Nuwanda.

That's nothing.

My conjoined twins are more disturbing than your elephant man.

Chris Weimer · 08-09-2006, 11:06 PM

In case any were wondering, the conjoined twin picture is not a fake.

Dargo · 08-10-2006, 04:19 AM

I realize it's off-topic, but has anyone heard Christian explanations for severe physical deformities?

FatherMithras · 08-10-2006, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dargo

I realize it's off-topic, but has anyone heard Christian explanations for severe physical deformities?

Some ridiculous bullshit about man eating the fruit leading to the degeneration of the species. they say that's why we don't like up to 1000 years, despite the fact the Bible states that god just decided it eventually. So remember, eating a fruit and commiting sin makes your genes jump!

Sven · 08-11-2006, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ggazoo

Well, all I can say is there are four separate accounts from four different writers, and they are all pretty much consistent. It's kind of like when four different people witness an accident or a crime... they are simply telling the resurrection their own way.

If you think they are all pretty much consistent, you certainly won't have any problems meeting the Easter Challenge, yes?

Joan of Bark · 08-16-2006, 06:21 AM

Thanks for the link, Sven. Dan Barker's challenge should be distributed everywhere alleged literalists can be found ... (of course, they're only literalists until they see a passage they can't justify, then they become interpreters ...).

guy_683930 · 08-16-2006, 07:39 AM

The best are Genesis 28:13 combined with Exodus 6:3. Yahweh tells Jacob that his name is Yahweh, but in Exodus 6:3 he says that by his name Yahweh he was not known to Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob. There have been many interpretations to this verse, some taking Exodus 6:3 to say he was known by that name, phrased as a rhetorical question, but based on Hebrew grammar that is unlikely. Josephus interpreted this literally, and claims that Moses wrote in the name of Yahweh into previous stories. Of course, the problem with that is that Abraham refers in Genesis 22:14 to calling a mountain Yahweh-jireh, which means "Yahweh will provide". How Josephus interpreted this I haven't cared enough to look up. Titus 1:2, Hebrews 6:18, and Numbers 23:19 state that God does not lie. How one interprets both things without conceding that God did not say at least one of them is very difficult, and I've never heard any sufficient argument that does not resort to splitting hairs. One writer claims that the term "to know" (yada) should mean to know better, like in Genesis where Adam knows Eve in Genesis 4:1. However, the argument against this is Genesis 4:25 where Adam knows Eve again, so in both situations "to know" is used in a different way, referring to having sex. So, Yahweh is not referring to Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob having sex with the name Yahweh, so it is a weak argument.

Loomis · 08-16-2006, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guy_683930

Titus 1:2, Hebrews 6:18, and Numbers 23:19 state that God does not lie. How one interprets both things without conceding that God did not say at least one of them is very difficult, and I've never heard any sufficient argument that does not resort to splitting hairs.

The god in Numbers 23:19 is El. Not Yahweh.

Quote:

Numbers 23:19

El is not a man, that he should lie,
nor the Son of Man, that he should change his mind.

Has he said, and will he not do it?
Or has he spoken, and will he not make it happen?

Yahweh is the liar:

Quote:

Ezekiel 14:9

And if a prophet be deceived when he speaks, I, Yahweh have deceived that prophet.

Yahweh is the one who changes his mind:

Quote:

Exodus 32:14

Yahweh changed his mind over the evil that he had said he would do to his people.

Yahweh and El were two different gods with two different personalities. These verses only become "contradictions" when you ignore their names and pretend they are the same god.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

08-09-2006, 11:06 PM	#74
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	In case any were wondering, the conjoined twin picture is not a fake.

08-10-2006, 04:19 AM	#75
Dargo Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Texas Posts: 713	I realize it's off-topic, but has anyone heard Christian explanations for severe physical deformities?

08-16-2006, 06:21 AM	#78
Joan of Bark Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pua, in northern Thailand Posts: 2,823	Thanks for the link, Sven. Dan Barker's challenge should be distributed everywhere alleged literalists can be found ... (of course, they're only literalists until they see a passage they can't justify, then they become interpreters ...).

08-16-2006, 07:39 AM	#79
guy_683930 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 75	The best are Genesis 28:13 combined with Exodus 6:3. Yahweh tells Jacob that his name is Yahweh, but in Exodus 6:3 he says that by his name Yahweh he was not known to Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob. There have been many interpretations to this verse, some taking Exodus 6:3 to say he was known by that name, phrased as a rhetorical question, but based on Hebrew grammar that is unlikely. Josephus interpreted this literally, and claims that Moses wrote in the name of Yahweh into previous stories. Of course, the problem with that is that Abraham refers in Genesis 22:14 to calling a mountain Yahweh-jireh, which means "Yahweh will provide". How Josephus interpreted this I haven't cared enough to look up. Titus 1:2, Hebrews 6:18, and Numbers 23:19 state that God does not lie. How one interprets both things without conceding that God did not say at least one of them is very difficult, and I've never heard any sufficient argument that does not resort to splitting hairs. One writer claims that the term "to know" (yada) should mean to know better, like in Genesis where Adam knows Eve in Genesis 4:1. However, the argument against this is Genesis 4:25 where Adam knows Eve again, so in both situations "to know" is used in a different way, referring to having sex. So, Yahweh is not referring to Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob having sex with the name Yahweh, so it is a weak argument.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.