Opera Nut

Magus55 is culturally a Jew. Judaism is not a race, it is a religion. One can convert and be completely accepted. There are several different ethnic groups that are Jews.

Religiously, he's a Christian. He refuses to see that he is a Christian. Christians believe in the Holy Trinity. Three aspects of God in one god. Jews believe in One God ONLY. No Jesus, No Holy Spirit.

For some unknown reason, he wants it both ways. He wants to be considered a Jew by birth, but he believes in the Christian Messiah. Jesus has already been explained to NOT be the Jewish Messiah, and Magus55 is NOT the authority who determines who the Jewish Messiah is.

Magus55 said "I saw Jesus as the promised Jewish Messiah, which is why I accepted him." Magus55 does not have the authority to pronounce Jesus as the Jewish Messiah. Jesus does not meet the standards laid out in the Pentateuch. As was previously stated, the Jewish Messiah will be evident to the world and he will meet numerous requirements that Jesus does not.

Magus55, he's a born Jew who is a Christian convert. Why is that so hard to understand? Why does he want it both ways?
What ego satisfaction does that give him? Or does he just like to bait Jews? Or bait atheists? Or both?


sharon45, thank you for your contributions to this thread.

HelenM

I'm Jewish by descent too, fwiw.

I have a book recommendation for you, Magus: Girl Meets God by Lauren Winner. It's by a woman who converted to orthodox Jew, going through all that entailed, then came to believe Jesus is Messiah. It's a very thoughtful, honest book about her life, particularly how she has struggled to hold onto what is meaningful to her in Judaism, which is not always understood or appreciated by other Christians. I liked it a lot. I think you might find it interesting.

Helen

mark9950

To summarize your statement: ANCIENT MYTH.

If I was a god I would make sure that everyone knew and understood what I was talking about.

Angrillori

I don't know if this is appropriate, so mods delete it if it isn't, but I think I have an answer to your question.

What if Magus55 was just an alter-ego of another poster trying to draw out discussion by being arrogant, yet easily refuted, coherent, yet remarkably uninformed?

Your 'baiting' question made me think that.

long winded fool

Why can't he have it both ways? He believes what Jesus taught and Jesus was a Jew. Judaism experienced a schism because of the ministry of Jesus. The old Jews retained the label of "Jew," while the new Jews, who also accepted Gentiles as well as the descendents of Abraham, (since God's chosen were revealed to be of the spirit and not of the flesh) dropped the label of Jew and adopted a label which would clearly define their difference of opinion. A Jew who happened to be a follower of Christ was collectively called a "Christian." From a Christian perspective, the true Jews are the Christians, while the Jews that we know of today are people who think they are chosen because of their bloodline, but who actually reject the kingdom, though it is right before their eyes. I don't see any error in a Christian calling him or herself a Jew, except that it results in confusion in modern discussions. From a Christian perspective, it's the Jews who are mislabelling themselves, as Christian and Jew should be completely synonymous.

Opera Nut

Hoo boy, I don't know where to start on this one, it has so many logical errors.......

:banghead:

LWF keeps using the term "From a Christian perspective". The Christian perspective and the Jewish perspective are at odds with each other. That's why you cannot be both a Christian and a Jew in your religious belief. I did not say "culturally",
I said "belief".

The Christians were a Jewish cult that believed Jesus is the Messiah.

The Jews are still waiting for their Messiah, and do NOT believe Jesus was the Messiah, nor do they believe in the Trinity.

Those two belief systems are incompatible.

Magus55 is still a cultural Jew and a religious Christian.
He cannot have it both ways.

:banghead:

long winded fool

How would you respond if I said that an atheist must prove that there is no God? If he or she does not accept the burden of proof, they are an agnostic and nothing more. You cannot be an atheist and not accept the burden of proof. Either you honestly believe there is no God and therefore must provide proof in order to get anyone to take you seriously, (atheist) or you simply lack a belief in any particular god and therefore are waiting for proof yourself, (agnostic.) You can't be an agnostic and call yourself an atheist. You can't have it both ways.

Wouldn't you respond with something like "What does it matter what I call myself?!" You can't assume one absolute definition for a person's beliefs and then show that they stray from the definition you accept and use that to attack them.

mike_decock

I would have to agree:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.p...5&pagenumber=1

-Mike...

abe smith

No, baby: YOU're asserting a 'god", and it's up to you to prove it.
We who reject your unsubstantiated assertion don't have to prove a damn thing.

Soul Invictus

I am trying to imagine reconciling someone who might say that they are a Christian and perhaps a Muslim as well (pertaining to the religious connotations versus that of the definition of the monikers....i.e. Christian=follower of Christ and Muslim=one who submits to God)