rhutchin

So long as you blaspheme the Holy Spirit (which is to attribute the works of Jesus to satan and not the HS) and continue to deny that Jesus is God, then you cannot be saved. However, it is still possible for you to change your position, acknowledge that the miracles that Jesus did could only have been done by God, and ask forgiveness of God. Only when you die does your blaspheming become irreversible.

Context is important. If you are in St. Louis, I can tell you that you can never get to California if you travel north. So long as you insist on going north to reach California, you will never reach California. However, if you were to change direction and travel west (or even east) you could reach California.

rhutchin

Iron chariots have been known to scare men so that they think that God cannot keep His promises causing them to run from battle when they should attack but they are hardly kryptonite.

punk77

Don't give up hope Joan of Bark :devil1:.

Whilst you are right about what Jesus says above:

Mark 3:28-29 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme. But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

just ignore that and go with:

1 John 1:7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Problem solved (though it does throw up another contradiction).

rhutchin

OK. The men on the road to Emmaus are visited by Jesus on the day of His resurrection. They return and tell the "eleven" apostles. There is a period of time when the apostles are discussing these things and Thomas apparently leaves. After this, Jesus appears to the remaining apostles (now numbering ten).

The question is, "Where does Luke say that Jesus appeared to the "eleven." Luke clearly says that the men who had been traveling to Emmaus found the "eleven" gathered together. However, there is time for Thomas to leave and Luke does not tell us the number who were present when Jesus appeared to them. At least, I don't see where he does.

Johnny Skeptic

Message to rhutchin: God promised to give Egypt to Nebuchadnezzar as a compensation for Nebuchadnezzaar's failure to defeat Tyre, but he broke his word. Why did God tell a lie?

What evidence do you have that the Bible is inerrant, and that God inspired the Bible? At the very least, the Bible is sometimes confusing and misleading. No loving God would inspire a confusing and misleading book.

rhutchin

Notice the language, "But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

By "is in danger," the idea Jesus conveys is that the outcome is not certain. Otherwise he would have said something like, "is condemned to eternal damnation" and not "is in danger."

rhutchin

Can you give some background on this? Maybe a Biblical citation?

punk77

Notice the language '...hath never forgiveness...' does that mean it could change :huh:. '...hath never foregiveness...' seems pretty certain to me. Though trying to negate a contradiction between two verses by highlighting a contradiction within one of the verses seems to be a bit surreal to me.

Roland

This is why I find it hopeless and pointless even discussing contradictions with Bible defenders; they just make things up as they go along. "Thomas apparently leaves..." Apparent to you maybe but certainly not to anyone else reading the text. I mean, I don't know about you, but I certainly wouldn't leave in the middle of a tale from a couple of guys had just arrived all breathless claiming to have seen a person I loved and worshipped and whom I believed to be dead miraculously walking around and having a conversation with them (the text says that Jesus appeared to them all "while they were telling these things"). That must have been one pressing engagement Thomas had.

It's amazing how many people just drop silently out of these narratives when convenient (the same with Mary M in the resurrection account). Since John records this as having taken place in a locked room with the disciples cowering in fear of the authorities, it seems odd that Thomas would go wandering outside at just the crucial moment when Jesus makes his grand appearance, but, hey, when you gotta go you gotta go, I guess.

I'm not sure if you are one of those who believes Mark 16:9-20 is part of the inspired Bible or not, but whoever wrote this passage also clearly believes that Jesus appeared to the eleven:

14Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.

rhutchin

OK. Now put the to statements together. "Hath never forgiveness" and "is in danger." A person may have no possibility of forgiveness under some conditions but not under other conditions. A person may be in danger under certain conditions and not under other conditions. The phrase, "hath never forgiveness," can be conditioned on the surrounding text. The person who is blaspheming the Holy Spirit "hath never forgiveness" but the person who stops blaspheming the Holy spirit (by acknowledging that Christ is God) hath forgiveness.