helmvgod

God good to all, or just a few?
PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.
JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

GOD is good to all, but Jeremiah GOD is talking about the difference between those who love him and are righteous and those who hate him. Judgment will come to those who reject JESUS the CHRIST and the gospel of GOD. In this instance the Children of Israel had rejected GOD and were worshipping idols and GOD was warning them through the prophet Jeremiah to repent of their sins or face judgment. They didn’t repent and GOD punished them through the Babylonian captivity. GOD is a loving GOD but he will by no means forgo judgment on the wicked if they don’t repent. (Ezekiel 18 and Ezekiel 33).


War or Peace?
EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

You can’t be serious comparing these two scriptures that have nothing to do with each other. Exodus 15 was the victory song after GOD crushed the Egyptian army after parting the sea. In Romans Paul was near the end of his letter to Christians in Rome and abroad.
GOD protected his people in one part and the Apostle wished peace to his people in another part. Again, GOD defends his people and again GOD wishes that those who worship him abide in peace. Doesn’t any good parent defend his children from harm and wish them peace in their lives? Folk’s can’t be serious.

Who is the father of Joseph?
MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

I believe this one was answered already.

Who was at the Empty Tomb? Is it:
MAT 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
MAR 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
JOH 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

They all include Mary M. All three are correct. Some names were omitted in the other two gospels, but all the folks mentioned were there. The three accounts weave into one account.

Is Jesus equal to or lesser than?
JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.
JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

This is an easy one. You have to understand the concept of the “trinity.” I’ve been asked this one a ton. Many correct ways to explain this one.

1. JESUS is GOD in the flesh.
2. JESUS is still submitted to the father as being the WORD. As I control my WORD so does the father control his.
3. JESUS was GOD in the flesh, who suffered physical death and became (lower than the angels) to redeem man. Check out Hebrews chapter 1.

Which first--beasts or man?
GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

Man was made clearly on the sixth day. The story works this way
1. Genesis 1 tells the order
2. Genesis 2 tells us the purpose of creation . .. And that man was GOD’S centerpiece of creation. It’s the method of story telling. Gave the chronological background, then the purpose . . ..

The number of beasts in the ark
GEN 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
GEN 7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, GEN 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

No one considers this a contradiction. The unclean beasts were by 2 and the clean beasts were by seven. GOD wanted more clean animals than unclean. (Or animals to be considered clean and those unclean since the law of Moses was not yet, but GOD always thinks years ahead).

How many stalls and horsemen?
KI1 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.
CH2 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.

Easy, in the Hebrew it was a copyist error. The correct one was four thousand.

Is it folly to be wise or not?
PRO 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
1 Cor.1:19: "For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and wil bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."

Proverbs 4: The wisdom of GOD

Ecc: Lets you know the more you learn about life, the more you know how corrupt it is from what GOD made it to be.

I Corinthians chapter 1 is one of my favorite sections of scripture again this it talking about the wisdom of the world such as GOD doesn’t exist and the bible is full of hundreds if not thousands of contradictions and how it’s this foolishness that snares the “enlightened” and “free thinkers” to their own damnation if they don’t repent.

Human vs. ghostly impregnation

ACT 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
MAT 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Easy he had no natural father. However, his fleshly lineage came through the line of Judah and his father Israel and his father Isaac and his father Abraham. The physical flesh was a descendant of Abraham. He still had a human mother even though he had no human father.

The sins of the father
ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Again, judgment of those in Judah who do not receive the word of GOD. The second speaks of sins, everyone is accountable for their own sins, however the sins of our ancestors still do affect us as the consequences of their sins do affect others after them. As some who have had alcoholic and abusive fathers, suffered the abuse, but they are washed and redeem in Christ, they still have to deal with the consequences of the sins of others.

The bat is not a bird
LEV 11:13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
LEV 11:14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;
LEV 11:15 Every raven after his kind;
LEV 11:16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
LEV 11:17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,
LEV 11:18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,
LEV 11:19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
DEU 14:11 Of all clean birds ye shall eat.
DEU 14:12 But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
DEU 14:13 And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind,
DEU 14:14 And every raven after his kind,
DEU 14:15 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
DEU 14:16 The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan,
DEU 14:17 And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cormorant,
DEU 14:18 And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

THEY HAD DIFFERENT ANIMAL CLASSIFICATIONS OVER 3,000 YEARS AGO. It was written to the science and culture at the time.



Rabbits do not chew their cud
LEV 11:6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
'Gerah', the term which appears in the MT means (chewed) cud, and also perhaps grain, or berry (also a 20th of a sheckel, but I think that we can agree that that is irrelevant here). It does *not* mean dung, and there is a perfectly adequate Hebrew word for that, which could have been used. Furthermore, the phrase translated 'chew the cud' in the KJV is more exactly 'bring up the cud'. Rabbits do not bring up anything; they let it go all the way through, then eat it again. The description given in Leviticus is inaccurate, and that's that. Rabbits do eat their own dung; they do not bring anything up and chew on it.

I will research this one and get back with you on it.

Insects do NOT have four feet
LEV 11:21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;
LEV 11:22 Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind.
LEV 11:23 But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.

THEY HAD DIFFERENT ANIMAL CLASSIFICATIONS OVER 3,000 YEARS AGO. It was written to the science and culture at the time.

Snails do not melt
PSA 58:8 As a snail which melteth, let every one of them pass away: like the untimely birth of a woman, that they may not see the sun.

Ever roasted a snail in a hot, hot fire? Nuff said . . He’s using creative language here. It’s reaching.

Fowl from waters or ground?
GEN 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
GEN 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

Fowls (Birds and the like) were formed out of the water. The Ground formed the beasts of the field. The sentence can be read that GOD made birds (period) and formed the beasts of the field out of the ground.


Odd genetic engineering
GEN 30:39 And the flocks conceived before the rods, and brought forth cattle ringstraked, speckled, and spotted.

That was a miracle, GOD’s supernatural power working in the life of Jacob.

The shape of the earth
ISA 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
MAT 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
Astromical bodies are spherical, and you cannot see the entire exterior surface from anyplace. The kingdoms of Egypt, China, Greece, Crete, sections of Asia Minor, India, Maya (in Mexico), Carthage (North Africa), Rome (Italy), Korea, and other settlements from these kingdoms of the world were widely distributed.

Isaiah talks about the spherical shape. Showing that 2,700 years ago that GOD showed us the earth was round.

JESUS was in a Spiritual context when Satan showed him those things. It was a supernatural experience. Satan in a supernatural way showed him all the kingdoms that existed on earth. That is what it’s talking about. Not about a physical location as much as a spiritual location.

One spiritual one physical.



Snakes, while built low, do not eat dirt
GEN 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:


It’s figurative language, licking the dust or eating the dust means that they will never be upright again, they will wallow in the dust and dirt of the earth. Like Sindwinder snakes.
Earth supported?
JOB 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.
JOB 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

Yep, Earth is supported by GOD’S creation. GOD hangs the earth with no string. The entire universe all 50 billion plus galaxies are in his hand.


Heaven supported too
JOB 26:11 The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at his reproof.

The sky and the planet heaven were he resides all are in his hand. GOD’S creation supported by him and is in his hands. The origins the makings the foundations of all creation made by him and supported by him.

The hydrological cycle
ECC 1:7 All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.
JOB 38:22 Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
Storehouses are not part of the cycle

Huh? Storehouses?

Order of creation
Here is the order in the first (Genesis 1), the Priestly tradition:
Day 1: Sky, Earth, light
Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky(!)
Day 3: Plants
Day 4: Sun, Moon, stars (as calendrical and navigational aids)
Day 5: Sea monsters (whales), fish, birds, land animals, creepy-crawlies (reptiles, insects, etc.)
Day 6: Humans (apparently both sexes at the same time)
Day 7: Nothing (the Gods took the first day off anyone ever did)
Note that there are "days," "evenings," and "mornings" before the Sun was created. Here, the Deity is referred to as "Elohim," which is a plural, thus the literal translation, "the Gods." In this tale, the Gods seem satisfied with what they have done, saying after each step that "it was good."
The second one (Genesis 2), the Yahwist tradition, goes:
Earth and heavens (misty)
Adam, the first man (on a desolate Earth)
Plants
Animals
Eve, the first woman (from Adam's rib)

How orderly were things created?
#1: Step-by-step. The only discrepancy is that there is no Sun or Moon or stars on the first three "days."
#2: God fixes things up as he goes. The first man is lonely, and is not satisfied with animals. God finally creates a woman for him. (funny thing that an omniscient god would forget things)

How satisfied with creation was he?
#1: God says "it was good" after each of his labors, and rests on the seventh day, evidently very satisfied.
#2: God has to fix up his creation as he goes, and he would certainly not be very satisfied with the disobedience of that primordial couple. (funny thing that an omniscient god would forget things)

Huh? GOD didn’t forget anything. Woman was made as a help meet for man. To show the order of creation, GOD also made light on the first day before he made the moon and stars and sun. GOD made light way before to show us that he is the light maker and light bearer.

Moses' personality
Num.12:3: "Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the fact of the earth."
Num.31:14, 17, 18: "And Moses was wroth...And Moses said unto them, "Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman, ... But all the women children ... keep alive for yourselves."

Moses was meek and meek doesn’t mean weak or soft. Moses was humble to GOD and Moses knew how to put down a rebellion and put and end to the wickedness that constantly came up in the book of Numbers. You can be meek and can be strong.

Righteous live?
Ps.92:12: "The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree."
Isa.57:1: "The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart."


That is true the righteous may suffer in this life but they grow in wealth and prosperity in HEAVEN. The next life and the righteous grow in heart and toward JESUS the CHRIST daily.

However, martyrdom is a reality in this life. Also, Isaiah 57 some thought was referring to the death of many of the righteous at the hands of the wicked in Judah’s dark days. Righteous people such as Paul and Peter grew in grace and power in the LORD, however they were both executed. They still grew in his love and grace.

JUDAS DEATH

Acts 1:18: "Now this man (Judas) purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out."
Matt. 27:5-7: "And he (Judas) cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests...bought with them the potter's field."

He hung himself most likely from a tree and fell down and bust open in a field below the tree. Some say he hung himself by a try over a cliff and he fell headlong into a field below. However, one thing is certain he hung himself from a height and fell down bust open in a field.

Jesus' first sermon plain or mount?
Matt.5:1,2: "And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying...."
Luke6:17,20: "And he came down with them, and stood in the plain, and the company of his disciples, and a great multitude of people...came to hear him.. And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples and said..."

The order of events in Luke and Matthew are different. But, there is one thing you left out of Luke chapter 6.

Lu 6:12 And it came to pass in those days, that he went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God.

Lu 6:13 And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;

Lu 6:14 Simon, (whom he also named Peter,) and Andrew his brother, James and John, Philip and Bartholomew,

Lu 6:15 Matthew and Thomas, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon called Zelotes,

Lu 6:16 And Judas the brother of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor.

Lu 6:17 And he came down with them, and stood in the plain, and the company of his disciples, and a great multitude of people out of all Judaea and Jerusalem, and from the sea coast of Tyre and Sidon, which came to hear him, and to be healed of their diseases;

He was in a mountain and he came down, the sermon occurred in the vicinity of a mountain with both gospels say.

Matthew.

Mt 5:1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:

Mt 5:2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,

Luke adds the fact that he came down from the top of the mountain to speak. Matt leaves this out. That’s the only difference.

Jesus' last words

Matt.27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."
Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."
John19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

I guess you never heard the sermon, “The final sayings of the cross?” Jesus said ALL THESE THINGS on the cross. They all like thread weave together for one complete account.

Years of famine
II SAMUEL 24:13: So God came to David, and told him, and said unto him, shall SEVEN YEARS OF FAMINE come unto thee in thy land? or will thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue. thee?
I CHRONICLES 21:11: SO God came to David, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Choose thee. Either THREE YEARS OF FAMINE or three months to be destryed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee;

Copyist error . . In time frame. Since Chronicles was written later, Chronicles more than likely had the correct time. Doesn’t change the doctrine nor the gravity of the situation though.

Moved David to anger?
II SAMUEL 24: And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Isreal and Judah.
I CHRONICLES 21: And SATAN stood up against Isreal, and provoked David to number Israel.

GOD allowed Satan (see Job) to test David in this situation and he failed. The children of Israel at this time were more than likely doing something to upset GOD and GOD used the occasion to punish those in rebellion against him. A common theme in the old testament.

Chris Johnston

So which is it? Is god one, or father and son, or a lubrication product? (Get it? 3-in-1?)

This trinity thing is actually a construct not found in the NT, only by chasing down chosen texts and pushing square pegs into round holes. This does not negate the contradiction, only reinforces it.

Chris Johnston

So it's important that we get the science or the scripture here, either or both, accurate?

OOOOOO copyist error, therefore this passage is not inerrant, therefore there is no contradiction?

So the Bible was written in a prescientific culture? Doesn't that mean that all this nonsense about "creation science" is just an exercise in futility?

And on and on we go. You, like all fundamentalists (who prefer to flatter themselves as Bible-believers) want to pick and choose what you like from the Bible. So you invent twisted feats of strength to make one verse not say what it says, or you decided that when verse A speaks of scientific things it must be so, but when verse B does the same, it couldn't possibly be so.

The things that people do to figure out their faith scientifcally, is amazing.

Check out some of them on my blog, Faith In Action

Chris Johnston

Here's another great story you can explain while you are at it.

What about this "star of Bethlehem?" How did the wise men in the East, see it in the east, and follow it west? What star was it? Hmmmmm?

punk77

I have always liked this one. They are so different that they can't be passed off as copyist errors and yet two of the three verses claim that they are a record of the last words of Jesus.

(There is wriggle-room with Matt.27:46,50: ...when he cried again... as he could have said something else though why the author of Matthew didn't record it nobody has been able to adequately explain to me).

Joan of Bark

Any contradiction can be reconciled with enough convoluted logic -- this rule applies to everything in the history of writing. Human language is so inexact and variable that any statement can, with enough blood, sweat, and tears, be molded into a different statement. The question becomes: is it convincing?

robto

In other words, there IS a contradiction, but we're going to ignore it because the goals of the 2 passages are different.

In other words, there IS a contradiction, but we're just going to ignore the second verse in favor of the first.
In other words, there IS a contradiction, but it doesn't count because it was caused by copyist error.

C'mon, helm, you haven't even tried to reconcile these verses. Surely you can do better than that?

(And I'd like to know how you know it was a copyist error, why you're sure the Chronicles version (the later version) is the correct one, and, oh, yes, how many other copyist errors there are in the Bible? If it's riddled with such errors, how can it be trusted?)

Minimalist

I consider it an an obvious contradiction and I don't really care what some bible thumper thinks!

So there.

Joan of Bark

I wasn't intending to respond to any of the specific contradictions mentioned, but this one annoys me so much I just have to get it off my chest. **Please note, I know the Hebrews were never in Egypt, but believers think he was, so I'm arguing from their point of view**

Helm, GOD IS OMNIPOTENT. Do you realize what that means? It means he can do ANYTHING. If he can do anything, why does he have to resort to mass murder to "defend his children"? There are almost an infinite number of actions He could have taken to stop the Egyptians from killing the Hebrews, without spilling one drop of blood. Why do God's apologists always ignore this important point? (And I haven't even mentioned the bloodthirsty bastard slaughtering the firstborn of Egypt).

BMD

Some of my favorite contradictions in the Bible are those that revolve around the death, cruxifiction and resurrection story.

I have followed a couple of parallel paths. I used to be a fundy, YEC, inerrant Southern Baptist type. I went away, far away, from this for a variety of reasons. But the thing that started me down the path away from YE was simply when I started reading YE material. That was enough to convince me they were wrong. So it was with inerrancy. The twisted logic that I would read of folks defending inerrancy was enough to convince me that it was realy indefensible.

As I recall, this bit about Judas was one of the first that stuck with me. THey give two totally different reasons for his death yet some people have no trouble at all convincing themselves that since each account does not specifically rule out every other method of death, that the two stories can simply be combined. Yet they ignore how completely different the two stories are.

In one account, we have a Judas who is hysterical in his regret for what he has done. He repents, he takes the blood money back and throws it at the source and then goes and kills himself. The place of his death becomes known as the Field of Blood because it is subsequently bought as a potter's field.

In the other, there is no sign of regret. He keeps the money, even using it to buy himself some land. Then, it what is surely supposed to be him getting his just desserts, he trips and splits himself open on some rocks, bleeding to death. The plot of land becomes known as the Field of Death because of his gruesome means of death there.

His attitude differs. His means of death differs. (We need a reminder here that if the rope broke while he was trying to hang himself that he would go feet first not headlong.) The disposition of the money is different. Who buys the field is different. How the field gets named is different. And fundamentally, the stories are trying to tell different things.

Its is impossible to reconcile the death of Judas in a way that remains faithful to both stories.