Deus Ex

One argument that has been advanced to me by Christian Philosopher Victor Reppert is that the astounding historical accuracy in Acts is only possible by Luke having actually been a traveling companion of Paul's. He asserts that it is wildly implausible that an author could have learned this information by any other means other than first-hand experience, ruling out a second century date for Acts. He says:

According to Norman Geisler (admittedly a biblical apologist), "In all, Luke names thirty-two countries, fifty-four cities, and nine islands without error."{8}

Norman Geisler, Baker Encyclopedia of Apologetics (Grand Rapids, MI.: Baker Books, 1999), 47.




Dr. Reppert concludes his argument with this:

In short, I think the character of Luke's work gives us very strong inductive evidence that Luke was "on board" with Paul. It also provides significant evidence in support of Luke's claims concerning the miraculous. Whether you think this evidence is sufficient depends on the prior probabilities you bring to the discussion.

My question is this: is it possible that a second century author could have access to written sources that gave detailed information on the geographical names and the correct titles of officials living fifty years prior? He feels that the argument that Luke used Josephus is weak.

P.S. Link to the original discussion on Victor's blog Dangerous Idea

I post there under the name Walter.

Dutch_labrat

The Roman Empire contained quite a lot of well studied people. it had universities and libraries. Such a large empire also surely needed maps. Some people did travel around quite a lot.

I see nothing strange about a person in this Roman Empire having access to such information. It is a tautological proof that the person writing this book was literate.

On another note: Is it possible that some locations were named later influenced by acts, not the other way around? Am I being too cynical?

I can't really proof either way but acts does feel more historical than the gospels. there is less hocus pocus and more just people travelling around preaching. Still I wouldn't call it a reliable source of anything, there have been too many powers with too much at stake screwing around with scripture. Anything in it is suspect.

Toto

Yes indeed. The only reason we think that the information is accurate is that we have access to the same sources that this second century author used.

This is called "hand waving." The argument is actually quite strong. See Luke and Josephus.

I recommend Ricard Pervo, The Mystery of Acts (or via: amazon.co.uk) for a readable discussion of the subject.

steve_bnk

It must be true, therefore it is.

Deus Ex

Reppert's argument is that we have rediscovered the proper titles of these first century officials through archaeology, and that an author writing around 110 CE or later could not possibly have gotten all these titles right since that information would have been almost impossible to obtain unless the author actually traveled with Paul.

Reppert and his bulldog Timothy McGrew are using J.P. Holding's article on Josephus as a refutation of Pervo's evidence that Luke used Josephus.

I have it on order.

Toto

How could it be impossible? Does he think those monuments disappeared shortly after Paul's trip, only to be discovered in the 19th or 20th century?

PhilosopherJay

Hi Deus Ex,

Here are the names of 32 countries
Aghanistan Albania, Algeria, Andorra, Angola, Argentina, Armenia, Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Bahamas Bahrain, Bangladesh, Barbados, Belarus, Belgium, Belize, Benin, Bhutan, Bolivia, Botswana,Brazil Brunei Darussalam Bulgaria Burkina Faso Burma (Myanmar) Burundi, Cambodia Cameroon Cape Verde

Here are 54 cities: Hong Kong, New York City, Chicago,Singapore, São Paulo
Seoul, Shanghai, Tokyo, Bangkok, Dubai, Guangzhou, Moscow,Toronto,
Chongqing, Shenzhen, Beijing, Kuala Lumpur, Rio de Janeiro, Osaka, Jakarta,
Buenos Aires, Recife, Macao, Miami, Mumbai, Sydney, Wuhan, Melbourne, Istanbul, Houston, Honolulu, Vancouver, Panama City, Mexico City, Gold Coast City, London, Curitiba, Los Angeles, Atlanta, Caracas, Makati,Tianjin, San Francisco, Dallas, Busan, Paris, Las Vegas, Philadelphia, Xiamen, Kyiv, Santiago, Nanjing, Seattle, Dalian

Here are nine islands: Mykonos, Tonga, Cyrus, Cuba, Jamaica, Pitt Island, Nassau, Flint Island, and Bumuda

Isn't it amazing that I got all of them right. Does this not prove that I have been to all of them?

There should be a name for this type of apologist strategy of making rather simple tasks appear to be so fantastic that they provide some kind of proof for some thing. There has to be a better name than "exaggerating the difficulty and uniqueness of things".

We should consider that private libraries had thousands of manuscripts, The one found in the small town of Herculaneum has at least 1800 manuscripts that have survived. It is no trouble imagining that a typical library would contain good geographical descriptions and provide names of famous officials from the previous century.

Warmly,

Philosopher Jay

Deus Ex

Timothy Mcgrew's response:

dockeen

"If you cannot see such evidence in the accuracy of numerous details in Luke's description of the journey across Asia Minor -- including passing references to overland routes, sea routes, prevailing weather, local customs, local languages and dialects, local ethnic identities, local religious practices, local titles, local industries, a Roman official who held office in a particular location for only half a year, and the anomalous and temporary presence of two proconsuls in a region where normally there would be only one -- then I submit that you have no idea what real overwhelming historical evidence looks like."

To me, this glosses over the following logic. If we know this "obscure" information
now, then it was also known in the past. So the consistency is hardly impossible.
It still leaves open the possibility that someone used a travel log as a reference
to give the story a varying "local" flavor.

Given the questionable record of information seen in "inscriptions" on "artifacts"
from the times, one has to take the "confirmation" of a desired result from them
somewhat with a grain of salt.

Roger Pearse

It is probably possible. We do have to remember, tho, that the Roman empire was not like a modern state, and people doing research did not have the same facilities that we do. I'm not that sure about titles of minor officials, you know -- how would people know?

But surely the simplest explanation is that it was written when it seems to have been.

Don't spend any time on this one. It's a manufactured argument, put forward by people who are distinctly fringe, which exists solely in order to try to redate Acts. I don't know about you, but I despise attempts to rewrite history for ideological reasons.

All the best,

Roger Pearse