sweetpea7

I see no evidence that god exists. I do not know how life began. :huh:

sschlichter

You see life on this planet, do not understand how it got here yet see no evidence of a creator?

sweetpea7

That's right. The fact that I do not understand something or have an answer does not mean that I just make one up. Although, I did kind of like my idea of Papa Smurf. Maybe Smurfette would have been even better?

sschlichter

That is not true. You did make one up. You made up the option of life springing up out of nothing contrary to what is evident. It is evident that cannot happen. Have you ever seen that happen. Has anyone ever proven that it could happen? Yet, you beleive it because you have faith that there is no God hiding outside of the scope of what you know.

sweetpea7

sschlichter: Outside of my smurfs example, I did not make up an answer for how life began. I just said I don't know. Please don't put words in my mouth.

sschlichter

You said:

in the context of a discussion on how life began, doesn't this imply that you beleive that life originated without a creator - since you do not see life as evidentiary of a creator.

This tells me that you beleive that life (and matter for that matter) can spring out of nothing.

Did I misunderstand?

sweetpea7

sschlichter: Yes, It seems you misunderstood. Saying I do not know how life began does not imply that life either came from nothing or was created by god. Maybe life was created by aliens, Flying Spaghetti Monster, or (my preference) Smurfette. There is just as much evidence for any of these creatures creating life than there is for god. Also, it is possible that maybe the chemical components for life came together and the most simple life form appeared. Life evolved from there to become the complex and variegated forms we see today. The short answer is I just don't know. I don't claim belief in any of these options, therefore, faith has nothing to do with it.

Zenaphobe

If we were to grant life required divine intervention to begin, why would we make a leap to identify that divinity as Yahweh? Are there not creation myths from around the world we could accept that predate Genesis?

Would you encourage me to accept the story of Marduk taking blood and forming bone to create savage-man if I found it just as plausible as Yahweh forming Adam from clay and breathing into him to make him alive?

Did Yahweh want modern day people to literally believe in the stories in the OT? Was Samson a literal person who did what the Bible claims he did?

I know you said proof is not an issue, so why bring the Bible into things at all? If we all have the true knowledge of Yahweh and his will suppressed in our hearts, why the need for all the fantastic tales he decided to include in his message? Why the need for all the hide and seek and tall tales?

I just find the Bible to look as man made as the numerous other revelations touted as being from a god, so rather than pretend that I believe in the literal stories of Genesis, I just have to say "I don't know how life came into being."

To do otherwise would be dishonest. :huh:

sschlichter

I can see life evolved. I am talking about how it got started. Aliens are not a start. Neither is smurfette. You willingness to include aliens and smurfette seems contrary to reason. You have to use reason when consider the origin of life. Matter and life must have sprung out of nothing, always existed, or was created by something that has always existed. I find it hardest to beleive that life sprang out of nothing. You can throw in aliens and surfs but all that will do is buy time.

Which do you think to be most miraculous and least beleivable?

sschlichter

I did not ask you to take any such leap. I only asked to consider if there was a God, would it be hard to beleive that he would be capable of making a man strong as long as his hair is long.

again, just asking if it is really that hard to beleive once you beleive in a God that intervenes in history.

How can you accuse God of tall tales and hide and seek at the same time?

Aren't these contradictory? How can God intervene in history providing miracles as to his existence and be accused of hide and seek?

[/quote]

well, it is also man-made. that is the nature of inspiration. It is not provided as evidence, contrary to popular opinion. I know when Moses made a snake on a pole that would save those who were bitten by snakes when they look up to it, they kept the pole and later had to get rid of it because people were worshipping it. Christians kept worshipping the bones of the apostles for centuries. Perhaps the Bible is assembled with the messy cooperation of men to keep Christians from worshipping it as well. (and many probably still do anyway)

I expect your reaction to creation in Genesis is really a reaction to Christians views on Genesis. Genesis itself says practically nothing about the details of creation in about a page and a half. the point of the creation story is that, "in the beginning God created..." it says practically nothing substantive about how and when. it is about why.

I agree, it would be hypocritical to pretend to beleive in something that you do not.