Elijah

And the rest I sound good on?

show_no_mercy

Well that's your interpretation of the texts. I was just presenting that to Abe because he seemed incredulous that that sort of theology could be derived from Paul.

Elijah

If you don't see anything unreasonable about my interpretation then that's all I can really ask for. Sorry to bother but could I get some citation or an idea to where to look on the Jewish Justice God of Marcion?

show_no_mercy

Of all places, here's The Catholic Encyclopedia on Marcion. They obviously have no love for Marcion.

gurugeorge

It hasn't been falsified at all. There are dozens more quotes that make him look spiritual than the puacity you guys dredge up of vaguely-historical-if-you-squint-at-them references.

These kinds of references could just as easily be myth, or fiction; both mythical and fictional stories harbour little earthly details about earthly doings of spiritual entities, it's a not uncommon trope. You have no way of providing any logical necessity to the argument that the references in the Jesus myth are in fact historical-about-an-ordinary-human being until you can first provide us with an ordinary human being who fits the bill. Till then, it's just knee-jerk euhemerism, for God knows what reason.

ApostateAbe

Yeah, I know. That's why I preceded my assertion with that if condition statement. If you claim that the position has not been falsified at all, then go ahead and tell me what would falsify it just a little bit.

arnoldo

Paul's use of the apparent greek homonym (delivered) which is not meant to be translated as betrayal can give us an insight into Paul's occupation. If Paul was previously a messenger/cater sometime in the first century it's possible that in his haste to deliver a message/food of some kind he suffered an accident while on horseback (Perhaps the slogan the company he worked for was "Delivered before sundown or it's free." ;). In any event after this fall he suffered some head trauma where he imagined the entire NT as we have it to date. In addition, the fall triggered an underlying condition of Paul's multiple personality disorder. Thus, Paul wrote all of the gospels while under the different personalities of the different writers. Still, Paul continued in the tradition of delivering his writings far and wide as he did previously. In addition to delivering writings he apparently continued to deliver food and wine and indicated in the following verse.

This theory is not as far fetched as it sounds at first glance. The film, A Beautiful Mind, gives us glimpse into the mind of someone who comes to believe that an imaginary world is real.

gurugeorge

Well, obviously, finding some evidence of a man Jesus!

gurugeorge

It's not just not-far-fetched, it's by far the most likely way things were.

It seems to me just an obvious fact that religions generally start in mysticism and occultism - that's where the very idea of such entities as "gods", "spirits", "demons", etc., etc. COMES FROM. They're not the sort of thing a rational mind (especially a rational mind that had never had any mystical or visionary experiences) would naturally posit. It's also where "messages to be brought back to a benighted humanity" come from.

The central religious fact is that some people have mystical and visionary experiences, and tell others about them. Everything follows from that.

Sometimes they have such experiences in response to human beings (e.g. a deified person, like Haile Selassie is to Rastas), sometimes it all comes from who knows where - the depths of their unconscious, random brain farts, etc.

Sometimes the putative entities they talk about and the ideas they express are thought about by others, and those others interpret what they think is meant by the mystics' and visionaries effusions - maybe even build philosophies or theologies around their ideas.

But the central religious fact is people having either unitive mystical experiences or experiences of communicating with what seem to them to be non-physical entities who talk back.

ApostateAbe

Details!