Aspirin99

First, I’m asking for opinions. I’m not saying I know for sure.

Regarding Did Nero Really Blame the Christians for the fire in Rome of CE 64?

Sources:
• According to Roman historian Tacitus (c.56 - 117), Nero wanted to divert blame from himself and blamed it on the Christians.
• This is also recorded by Christian historian Sulpicius Severus' in his Sacred History around 402 CE. See: http://www.preteristcentral.com/arti...us-severus.htm

Reasons that it might be a fabrication:

• I have not verified this yet, but one source I read on this topic states that this event was not in the Annals of Tacitus until a publication of the Annals in 1468 by Johannes de Spire of Venice. Anyone have info on this? (See: http://tftb.com/deify/didjesus.htm ).
• The Annals were written near the end of Tacitus’ life around 117 CE, placing about 50 years between the fire and the first recording of it being blamed on Christians. During that 50 years, no other contemporary historian (and there were many) mentioned that Nero blamed the Christians.
• I have read that there are verifiable spurious events and interpolations in the Annals of Tacitus, and several studies of the Annals I have examined mention that the Annals are not thought to be completely trustworthy. I need to gather more details.
• When Nero became emperor, he abolished capital punishment and blood sport. Obviously, he did some heinous things to his own family, but a public execution on this scale is hypocritical to the stated law. However, I realize Nero did later execute people.
• Nero has an alibi when the fire started, and could have cleared his name without resorting to blaming the Christians. He was in Antium when the fire started (not Rome). This argument is weak, but there it is.
• In 119 CE, Roman writer Suetonius (75 - 160 C.E.) says that Nero “showed the utmost indifference, even contempt in regard to religious sects.� However, I know that towards the end of his life, this really was not true.
• In 64 CE, Christianity was still in its infancy and would have been very similar to all the other Jewish religious sects. For Nero to call them “Christians� seems to be an anachronism. To tease them out of Judaism seems contrived.
• Josephus was contemporary with Nero, and he does not mention it. At some point, Josephus appeals to Nero to help the Jews recover from some natural disaster, and Nero does help them. I’m lacking the details on this.
• At some time in early Christianity, Nero is believed to be the Anti-Christ, supposedly because of his persecution of the Christians. I do not yet have the details on the source or time of this. Perhaps Lactantius in c.303? Anyone?
• Tacitus says in one place that the displaced citizens of Rome (because of the fire) were placed in tents in the Gardens of Rome. It was a tent city for the citizens. Then, we are told that Nero lined this Garden with the burning bodies of Christians. Allowing the citizens in the Gardens was a goodwill gesture. Exposing the tents to the danger of burning crosses and the smell of burning flesh is not logical.
• No other Roman or Christian historian before Sulpicius Severus (or after?) mentions that Nero blamed the Christians for burning Rome including the following who could have benefited from doing so:
o Any canonical writer such as Paul, the authors of the Gospels, etc.
o None of Nero’s personal biographers (I lack details here).
o Quintilian (b.35 - 96 CE) Roman educator of the elite
o Pliny the Elder (c. 78) historian.
o Clement of Rome (c. 100)
o Ignatius (c. 110)
o Pliny the Younger (
o None of the 2nd century Gnostic writers
o Polycarp (c. 135, big fan of Apostle Paul, who traditions says was killed by Nero)
o Suetonius (75 - 160 C.E.) Roman historian
o Valentinus (c. 100 - c. 153) had a Christian school in Rome.
o Anicetus (bishop of Rome c. 154)
o Hegesippus (ca 110 A.D. - ca 180), said to be 1st Christian historian
o Justin Martyr (c. 160 lived in Rome)
o Irenaeus (c.177) Described persecutions, yet mentions no persecution under Nero or that he blamed the fire on Christians.
o Clement of Alexandria (c. 190)
o Tertullian (c.197).
o Hippolytus of Rome (c. 212)
o Origen (c. 230) could have benefited by mentioning this in his debate with Celcus, but he does not.
o Lactantius (c.303) mentions in his Divine Institutions that Nero persecuted the Christians, but does not mention the fire.
o Eusebius (c.325), similar to Lactantius, mentions that Nero persecuted Christians but nothing about a fire.

Conclusion: Frankly, I’m not positive. My gut feeling is that it is a fabrication. It could be that when the doctrine of Nero being the Anti-Christ was developed, it was interpolated into the works of Sulpicius Severus. If it is true that it was not in the Annals of Tacitus until the 15th century, some scribe may have added it after reading Sulpicius Severus, desiring to make a more complete history. Thoughts?

Amaleq13

Here is an earlier thread on the subject that contains a link to a page by Cliff Carrington:

Tacitus, Nero, Christians, Fire...

Aspirin99

Thanks.

andrewcriddle

1/ All our copies of Tacitus' Annals ultimately go back to a single 12th ?century medieval manuscript. This manuscript contains the passage about Nero's persecution of Christians, it is definitely not a Renaissance interpolation.

2/ Sulpicius Severus only quotes/paraphrases part of the passage in Tacitus and it is unlikely IMO that the passage can be explained as an interpolation based straightforwardly on Sulpicius Severus, some of the most convincing bits of Tacitean style in the passage are not found in Sulpicius Severus at all.

3/ Suetonius mentions that Nero took measures against Christians Nero section 16. however this is not connected by Suetonius to the fire of Rome.

4/ I suggested in a long-ago thread that the historical basis for Tacitus' account may possibly have been that the fire was seen as a sign of the Gods' anger against Rome for tolerating impiety such as Christianity, rather than it being claimed at the time that Christians were literally arsonists.

Andrew Criddle

Amaleq13

I don't know if you are thinking of one of these two but you started them and they have "Tacitus" in the title :

christianos or chrestianos in Tacitus?

Tacitus on Christians a suggestion

andrewcriddle

Tacitus on Christians a suggestion

Is the one thanks.

Andrew Criddle