spin

Umm, if they have a community of goods, ie they share all their wealth, how can one have their own funds?? :huh:

Duvduv

Who knows what Josephus wrote in his books, and what was written by others in him name? The story about Massada is pure bunk, and many other stories are highly questionable. There are no notarized affidavits about the authenticity of books written in his name.
The Essenes as the "Third Philosophy" vis a vis Saduccees and Pharisees when the "Essenes" are not mentioned in a single Talmudic or Midrashic source?!

pinkvoy

Suppose a 2012 Jew in a communal Kibbutz were involved in defrauding non-Kubbutz Jew of money and has to repay. Does the bad Kibbutz Jew repay money come from the Kibbutz or his own money?

pinkvoy

Perhaps b/c the Essenes believed Jesus was the messiah.

spin

In the situation of the Essene, he doesn't have any money.... But the person in the scroll does.

Duvduv

Unlikely the reason. In fact neither Talmud or Midrashim mention nothing at all about a 1st century Jesus of Nazareth or his followers. That didn't stop them from condemning Saduccees or Samaritans, mind you.
The only figure known was Yeshu the son of Miriam and Yosef Pandera who was executed for practicing sorcery and deceiving Jews around the year 60 BCE.

aa5874

Perhaps, NOT.

pinkvoy

In catholicism and other religions, there are the hard core and the interested lay.

It's possible Josepheus was describing the more hard core monastic types

and the CR you cite refers to interested lay wanting to become eventual full members.

spin

So when the Essenes don't fit the evidence you smudge and fudge. The plain fact is that a member of the Yahad, ie somebody who had fully entered the community, had full eating rights and access to community funds, still could have cash of their own.

The connection with the Essenes has never been shown. In fact the descriptions supplied by Josephus don't so easily fit the Essenes with regard to finances, with regard to celibacy, with regard to the temple and with regard to toilet habits. Are you going to continue to make excuses or are you going to consider what is necessary to make an acceptable connection between the DSS and the Essenes? The vast majority of the lumpen scholartariat accepts what the original team working on the scrolls dictated. Yet a number of archaeologists have rejected it, Hirschfeld, Magen & Peleg, many of those who contributed to "The Site of the Dead Sea Scrolls: Archaeological Interpretations and Debates" (Brill Amazon (or via: amazon.co.uk)). The translators of the "The Dead Sea Scrolls: a New Translation", (HarperSanFrancisco Amazon (or via: amazon.co.uk)) Wise, Abegg & Cook, couldn't lend their support for it. Other significant scrolls scholars are out there who don't accept the hypothesis. It is not a well-founded position.

andrewcriddle

The Community Rule clearly envisages some form of Community of Goods which becomes complete on full membership.

The passage about fraud reads Possibly a full member (without private funds) would go rather hungry for sixty days, whereas a probationer would still have private assets and could pay back the debt.

Andrew Criddle