Freethought & Rationalism Archive

tezz · 09-27-2004, 04:18 PM

I was reading another thread recently which mentioned various biblical figures, it listed their family ties. Being in Australia, it reminded me of people who can trace their family history back to the original ships that came over. So, my question is are there people around today that claim their family line goes back to such characters as Moses, or Mary, or any other biblical characters? There must be some, after all there are a lot of people mentioned in the bible!

Disclaimer; this is not a convoluted attempt to prove or disprove anything!

funinspace · 09-27-2004, 04:41 PM

There are probably some RCC tales, but absolutely nothing is known about these people out side of what is claimed within the NT. I'm sure there are some people that make claims back to biblical figure, but it's just BS. There are way too many dead periods of solid knowledge of the peoples of this area to know anything. Never mind that people like Moses could well be ficticious.

Arvel Joffi · 09-27-2004, 04:52 PM

My mother insists that we're desended from Jesus. She's from the New Age-y train of thought that he lived in India during the "missing years" and that, though crucified, he didn't die on the cross and went on to raise a family.

She doesn't have any genealogical evidence to back it up, of course. I think her psychic friend told her. I feel bad dissing my mom's spiritual views, but they're pretty far out there. Almost as weird as the Judaic religions. But not quite.

tezz · 09-27-2004, 05:03 PM

You'd think if a member of your family had a virgin birth, claimed the father to be god, and the child in question grew up to be Jesus and performed miracles etc. the family would keep the story going, or maybe save a few treasured items! I guess it has been a long time, but there are so many characters in the bible, some of their decendents would keep the story going. Is this not what has happened in one of the Islamic sects?

Toto · 09-27-2004, 06:07 PM

Jesus' Jewish Relatives (the Desposynoi)

Jesus the carpenter

The Desposynoi (or Desposyni) claimed to be related to Jesus through one of his brothers. When Christianity become the official religion of the Roman Empire, they traveled to Rome and demanded that Christians follow the Jewish law. The emperor brushed them off, and they died out.

It is hard to know now if their claims were based on any real tradition, or if they just made it up.

But there are the claims that Jesus left offspring through Mary Magdalene, who became royalty in France. You can read about that in the Da Vinci Code, soon to be a major motion picture. Most scholars are dubious.

tezz · 09-27-2004, 06:51 PM

Thanks for the links, have there been other threads about the relatives?
How about Amittai (Jonah father), I bet the family would have remembered that!

There are countless references to famly members throughout both the OT and NT, it is surprising (to me) that there are not a plethora of families around that claim to trace their heritage back to biblical figures. People take pride in knowing things about their families history. Has anybody here ever met a long lost family member of a historical figure, 'I'm Churchill's' great, great, great nephew, twice removed on my budgies side'?

GakuseiDon · 09-28-2004, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tezz

You'd think if a member of your family had a virgin birth, claimed the father to be god, and the child in question grew up to be Jesus and performed miracles etc. the family would keep the story going, or maybe save a few treasured items! I guess it has been a long time, but there are so many characters in the bible, some of their decendents would keep the story going. Is this not what has happened in one of the Islamic sects?

Reminds me of a joke I heard from a Jewish comedian: How do we know that Mary and Jesus were Jewish? She thought He was God, and He thought she was a virgin...

Toto · 09-28-2004, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GakuseiDon

Reminds me of a joke I heard from a Jewish comedian: How do we know that Mary and Jesus were Jewish? She thought He was God, and He thought she was a virgin...

Finish the joke!

Proof that Jesus was Jewish:

He went into his father's business, he lived at home until he was 30, his mother thought he was God, and he thought that she was a virgin. . .

Garnet · 09-28-2004, 10:52 AM

A Jewish rabbi once told me that it is incredibly difficult to trace families back prior to the destruction of the temple in 70 AD. He said that geneological records were destroyed then as well. Any truth to that?

Toto · 09-28-2004, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garnet

A Jewish rabbi once told me that it is incredibly difficult to trace families back prior to the destruction of the temple in 70 AD. He said that geneological records were destroyed then as well. Any truth to that?

The usual story is that Herod destroyed the geneologies to cover up his lack of good birth. But if there had been any records, they could have been destroyed in 70 CE or 132 CE when Jerusalem was leveled by the Romans, or in numerous other disasters since.

Quote:

But as up to that time the genealogies of the Hebrews had been registered in the public archives, and those, too, which were traced back to the proselytes [19] -as, for example, to Achior the Ammanite, and Ruth the Moabitess, and those who left Egypt along with the Israelites, and intermarried with them - Herod, knowing that the lineage of the Israelites contributed nothing to him, and goaded by the consciousness of his ignoble birth, burned the registers of their families. This he did, thinking that he would appear to be of noble birth, if no one else could trace back his descent by the public register to the patriarchs or proselytes, and to that mixed race called georae.[20] A few, however, of the studious, having private records of their own, either by remembering the names or by getting at them in some other way from the archives, pride themselves in preserving the memory of their noble descent; and among these happen to be those already mentioned, called desposyni,21 on account of their connection with the family of the Saviour.

From The Epistle to Aristides (Julius Africanus)

09-27-2004, 04:18 PM	#1
tezz Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: FNQ, Australia Posts: 381	What happened to Mary and her relatives? I was reading another thread recently which mentioned various biblical figures, it listed their family ties. Being in Australia, it reminded me of people who can trace their family history back to the original ships that came over. So, my question is are there people around today that claim their family line goes back to such characters as Moses, or Mary, or any other biblical characters? There must be some, after all there are a lot of people mentioned in the bible! Disclaimer; this is not a convoluted attempt to prove or disprove anything!

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09-27-2004, 04:41 PM	#2
funinspace Contributor Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: North West usa Posts: 10,245	There are probably some RCC tales, but absolutely nothing is known about these people out side of what is claimed within the NT. I'm sure there are some people that make claims back to biblical figure, but it's just BS. There are way too many dead periods of solid knowledge of the peoples of this area to know anything. Never mind that people like Moses could well be ficticious.

09-27-2004, 04:52 PM	#3
Arvel Joffi Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 3,359	My mother insists that we're desended from Jesus. She's from the New Age-y train of thought that he lived in India during the "missing years" and that, though crucified, he didn't die on the cross and went on to raise a family. She doesn't have any genealogical evidence to back it up, of course. I think her psychic friend told her. I feel bad dissing my mom's spiritual views, but they're pretty far out there. Almost as weird as the Judaic religions. But not quite.

09-27-2004, 05:03 PM	#4
tezz Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: FNQ, Australia Posts: 381	You'd think if a member of your family had a virgin birth, claimed the father to be god, and the child in question grew up to be Jesus and performed miracles etc. the family would keep the story going, or maybe save a few treasured items! I guess it has been a long time, but there are so many characters in the bible, some of their decendents would keep the story going. Is this not what has happened in one of the Islamic sects?

09-27-2004, 06:07 PM	#5
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Jesus' Jewish Relatives (the Desposynoi) Jesus the carpenter The Desposynoi (or Desposyni) claimed to be related to Jesus through one of his brothers. When Christianity become the official religion of the Roman Empire, they traveled to Rome and demanded that Christians follow the Jewish law. The emperor brushed them off, and they died out. It is hard to know now if their claims were based on any real tradition, or if they just made it up. But there are the claims that Jesus left offspring through Mary Magdalene, who became royalty in France. You can read about that in the Da Vinci Code, soon to be a major motion picture. Most scholars are dubious.

09-27-2004, 06:51 PM	#6
tezz Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: FNQ, Australia Posts: 381	Thanks for the links, have there been other threads about the relatives? How about Amittai (Jonah father), I bet the family would have remembered that! There are countless references to famly members throughout both the OT and NT, it is surprising (to me) that there are not a plethora of families around that claim to trace their heritage back to biblical figures. People take pride in knowing things about their families history. Has anybody here ever met a long lost family member of a historical figure, 'I'm Churchill's' great, great, great nephew, twice removed on my budgies side'?

09-28-2004, 10:52 AM	#9
Garnet Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Lansing, MI Posts: 6,610	A Jewish rabbi once told me that it is incredibly difficult to trace families back prior to the destruction of the temple in 70 AD. He said that geneological records were destroyed then as well. Any truth to that?

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