Freethought & Rationalism Archive

simon kole · 07-28-2011, 01:45 PM

This is a continuation from Abrahamic Religions of the thread: Why is the Bible so Contradictory?

In response here, to Perspicuo's post regarding the hours in a Roman day, as I suspected,
Rome went to a 24-hour day before the time of Christ, which makes my response at #203, here, correct.

Google: Beginning of Roman 24-hour Day

Click on: A Brief History of Roman Time (ancientsites)

Toto · 07-28-2011, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon kole

This is a continuation from Abrahamic Religions of the thread: Why is the Bible so Contradictory?

In response here, to Perspicuo's post regarding the hours in a Roman day, as I suspected,
Rome went to a 24-hour day before the time of Christ, which makes my response at #203, here, correct.

Google: Beginning of Roman 24-hour Day

Click on: A Brief History of Roman Time (ancientsites)

I'm not sure why this popped up here, or why you do not give some background.

Your link appears to be A Brief History of Roman Time

Your claim:

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon kole

# 203: At what time of day was Jesus crucified?

Jewish time: at the third hour (9:00 am) - Mk 15:25
Roman time: at the ninth hour (9:00 am) - Jn 19:14

Perspicuo responded:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perspicuo

Wrong. The Roman day was divided in 12 hours. The continuous 24 hour day (where nona hora [=ninth hour] is in fact 9:00) is modern. The Roman day was the time when the sun was out and was divided in 12 hours from sunrise to sunset.
http://www.beaglesoft.com/timehistoryroman.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-hour_clock

I. Hora prima from 7:33 to 8:17 A.M.
II. secunda 8:17 to 9:02
III. tertia 9:02 to 9:46
IV. quarta 9:46 to 10:31
V. quinta 10:31 to 11:15
VI. sexta 11:15 to 12.00 noon.
VII. septima 12:00 to 12:44 P.M.
VIII. octava 12:44 to 1.29
IX. nona 1:29 to 2:13
X. decima 2:13 to 2:58
XI. undecima 2:58 to 3:42
XII. duodecima 3:42 to 4:27 P.M.

The link you alluded to seems to support Perspicuo's position that the Roman 9th hour would be in the afternoon.

Am I missing your point?

simon kole · 07-29-2011, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon kole

This is a continuation from Abrahamic Religions of the thread: Why is the Bible so Contradictory?, thread here.

In response here, to Perspicuo's post regarding the hours in a Roman day, as I suspected,
Rome went to a 24-hour day before the time of Christ, which makes my response at #203, here, correct.

Google: Beginning of Roman 24-hour Day

Click on: A Brief History of Roman Time (ancientsites)

I'm not sure why this popped up here, or why you do not give some background. See thread link above.

Your link appears to be A Brief History of Roman Time

Your claim:

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon kole

# 203: At what time of day was Jesus crucified?

Jewish time: at the third hour (9:00 am) - Mk 15:25
Roman time: at the ninth hour (9:00 am) - Jn 19:14

Perspicuo responded:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perspicuo

Wrong. The Roman day was divided in 12 hours. The continuous 24 hour day (where nona hora [=ninth hour] is in fact 9:00) is modern. The Roman day was the time when the sun was out and was divided in 12 hours from sunrise to sunset.
http://www.beaglesoft.com/timehistoryroman.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-hour_clock

I. Hora prima from 7:33 to 8:17 A.M.
II. secunda 8:17 to 9:02
III. tertia 9:02 to 9:46
IV. quarta 9:46 to 10:31
V. quinta 10:31 to 11:15
VI. sexta 11:15 to 12.00 noon.
VII. septima 12:00 to 12:44 P.M.
VIII. octava 12:44 to 1.29
IX. nona 1:29 to 2:13
X. decima 2:13 to 2:58
XI. undecima 2:58 to 3:42
XII. duodecima 3:42 to 4:27 P.M.

The link you alluded to seems to support Perspicuo's position that the Roman 9th hour would be in the afternoon.

Am I missing your point?

No, you are not. Perspicuo was arguing that at the time of John's gospel the ninth hour was not 9:00 am, because Rome was on a 12-hour day at the time.

Rome was on a 24-hour day at that time, and that 9:00 am was the ninth hour in Roman time is not surprising, since the 24-hour day originated long before the time of Christ, and the names of the hours could well have been adjusted by his time.

Keith&Co. · 07-29-2011, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon kole

Rome was on a 24-hour day at that time

Really?

The "A Brief History of Roman Time," states that they used the 24 hour day and the 12 hour day at the same time.

Do you have a reference that shows how the two were used, that shows which one would have been the standard used in the verse?

If both clocks were in use, it would be confusing to refer to the 9th hour and not make a distinction, leaving your readers not knowing if you meant 0900 or 1400...

simon kole · 07-29-2011, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith&Co.

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon kole

Rome was on a 24-hour day at that time

Really?

The "A Brief History of Roman Time," states that they used the 24 hour day and the 12 hour day at the same time.

Do you have a reference that shows how the two were used, that shows which one would have been the standard used in the verse?

If both clocks were in use, it would be confusing to refer to the 9th hour and not make a distinction, leaving your readers not knowing if you meant 0900 or 1400...

That's not what the article said.

Sheshbazzar · 07-30-2011, 12:02 AM

simon, at what hour in the year was the crucifixtion?
In your view, was the crucifixtion a planned event? with an appointed, set time? or did it merely take place at random?

What year in the Jubilee cycle was that year?
How many Jubilee cycles have there been from the beginning, to this present year?
On what date did this present Scriptural year begin? at what hour? on what day of the week?

At what hour began Lel Shemorim? at what hour did it end? Where were you during that Appointed Time?
What year in the Jubilee cycle is this present one? What month? What week? What day? And how many remain?
Man, where are you now?

How many handbreaths are in the cubit? How many finger-breadths? How many cubits are in a reed? How many digits are in each? The common cubit, and cubit of The Sanctuary?
How deep is a fathom? and what is the difference between twenty fathoms and fifteen fathoms?
yards, feet, inches, reeds, cubits, spans, hand-breadths, fingers (digits)?
Are your ways and measures equal? just? and perfect? (Deut 25:13-16, Lev 19:35-36, Zech 4:10)

Do you indeed fathom the deep things of Scripture? Do you percieve what is the length, what is the breadth, and what is the heigth?
The comings in, and the goings out, the numbers of the hours, of the days, of the weeks, of the months, the years, in their orders, and in their cycles?
The Appointed times, seasons, and that ORDER which was established from everlasting unto everlasting? To be observed by all The Children of Israel in all of their generations, in all of their dwellings?
Do you indeed weigh all of these the Scriptures, as gold and siver shekels upon scales perfect, just, and equal?
We shall see.

The stretching forth of the builders line, setting the plummet, building from the Head of the corner, to a perfect pattern, level, upright, equal, foursquare, and enduring.
Will knowledge of perfect answers make any difference to you?
Ecc 8:5

This is an appropriate thread, and the appropriate time. TODAY, if you will hear my voice; I am very interested in hearing your explainations of all Scriptures relating to these things.
MENE MENE TEKEL u'PHARSIN

.

Sheshbazzar · 07-30-2011, 02:39 AM

simon simon, do you think the texts are filled with empty words? small details recorded without any significance?
Ah but Who hath despised the Day of 'small things'? Because a thing in itself is 'small', and is seemingly unimportant, does it always follow, that it is insignificant? What is it that adds up to the BIG things, but all of the smaller?
And if one can not be entrusted to be faithful in that which is valued as 'small', and is regarded as being least, why should such one expect to be found faithful in that which is thought to be much? or expect great reward?

arnoldo · 07-30-2011, 09:13 AM

FWIW, the following article claims that the passover lamb was killed "between the evenings" which correlates to 3:00 P.M.

Quote:

A Passover (Pesach) lamb was to be killed between the evenings (Exodus [Shemot] 12:6).

The biblical day goes from evening to evening, from sundown to sundown, which is roughly 6:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m. (Genesis [Bereishit] 1:5,8,13,19,23,31). The day (6:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m.) is divided into two 12-hour periods. The evening runs from 6:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. The morning runs from 6:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. Each 12-hour period is divided into two smaller portions. From 6:00 a.m. to noon is the morning part of the day. From noon to 6:00 p.m. is the evening part of the day. The phrase, "between the evening" (from Exodus [Shemot] 12:6) refers to the period of the day that goes from noon to 6:00 p.m., which is exactly 3:00 p.m. This would be the ninth hour of the day, counting from 6:00 a.m. . . Yeshua died at the ninth hour of the day (Matthew [Mattityahu] 27:45-50). This would be exactly 3:00 p.m. (the ninth hour, counting from 6:00 a.m.).

THE SEVEN FESTIVALS OF THE MESSIAH

Sheshbazzar · 07-30-2011, 09:48 AM

Between what hours in that -year-, was that?
"exactly 3:00 p.m."? really? At what point does 'the ninth hour of the day' begin? or the twelvfth hourend?

When will you take the time to actually figure it out, rather than simply ignorantly quoting the mistakes of others?

peek-a-boo, I see you.

.

07-28-2011, 01:45 PM	#1
simon kole Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: southwest Posts: 1,761	Biblical Contradictions [Hour of Jesus' Death] This is a continuation from Abrahamic Religions of the thread: Why is the Bible so Contradictory? In response here, to Perspicuo's post regarding the hours in a Roman day, as I suspected, Rome went to a 24-hour day before the time of Christ, which makes my response at #203, here, correct. Google: Beginning of Roman 24-hour Day Click on: A Brief History of Roman Time (ancientsites)

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07-30-2011, 12:02 AM	#6
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	simon, at what hour in the year was the crucifixtion? In your view, was the crucifixtion a planned event? with an appointed, set time? or did it merely take place at random? What year in the Jubilee cycle was that year? How many Jubilee cycles have there been from the beginning, to this present year? On what date did this present Scriptural year begin? at what hour? on what day of the week? At what hour began Lel Shemorim? at what hour did it end? Where were you during that Appointed Time? What year in the Jubilee cycle is this present one? What month? What week? What day? And how many remain? Man, where are you now? How many handbreaths are in the cubit? How many finger-breadths? How many cubits are in a reed? How many digits are in each? The common cubit, and cubit of The Sanctuary? How deep is a fathom? and what is the difference between twenty fathoms and fifteen fathoms? yards, feet, inches, reeds, cubits, spans, hand-breadths, fingers (digits)? Are your ways and measures equal? just? and perfect? (Deut 25:13-16, Lev 19:35-36, Zech 4:10) Do you indeed fathom the deep things of Scripture? Do you percieve what is the length, what is the breadth, and what is the heigth? The comings in, and the goings out, the numbers of the hours, of the days, of the weeks, of the months, the years, in their orders, and in their cycles? The Appointed times, seasons, and that ORDER which was established from everlasting unto everlasting? To be observed by all The Children of Israel in all of their generations, in all of their dwellings? Do you indeed weigh all of these the Scriptures, as gold and siver shekels upon scales perfect, just, and equal? We shall see. The stretching forth of the builders line, setting the plummet, building from the Head of the corner, to a perfect pattern, level, upright, equal, foursquare, and enduring. Will knowledge of perfect answers make any difference to you? Ecc 8:5 This is an appropriate thread, and the appropriate time. TODAY, if you will hear my voice; I am very interested in hearing your explainations of all Scriptures relating to these things. MENE MENE TEKEL u'PHARSIN .

07-30-2011, 02:39 AM	#7
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	simon simon, do you think the texts are filled with empty words? small details recorded without any significance? Ah but Who hath despised the Day of 'small things'? Because a thing in itself is 'small', and is seemingly unimportant, does it always follow, that it is insignificant? What is it that adds up to the BIG things, but all of the smaller? And if one can not be entrusted to be faithful in that which is valued as 'small', and is regarded as being least, why should such one expect to be found faithful in that which is thought to be much? or expect great reward?

07-30-2011, 09:48 AM	#9
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	Between what hours in that -year-, was that? "exactly 3:00 p.m."? really? At what point does 'the ninth hour of the day' begin? or the twelvfth hourend? When will you take the time to actually figure it out, rather than simply ignorantly quoting the mistakes of others? peek-a-boo, I see you. .

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