Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Duvduv · 04-20-2012, 08:38 AM

Specifically in the context of obedience to the Torah this refers to Jews but since all peoples are prohibited from serving idolatry (idols, money, etc.), it would apply to everyone. Indeed, the Talmud has a proverb that says "Anyone rejecting idolatry is called a 'Jew' ".

Quote:

Originally Posted by semiopen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duvduv

In any case, the Book of Esther teaches that those who refuse to bow and prostrate themselves to idolatry are usually few and far between.

Did you mean Jew and far between?

Steve Weiss · 04-21-2012, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godfrey

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Weiss

Since there are no miracles anyone claiming to perform such is an alleged miracle-worker. Far from miracles validating the existence of a miracle-worker they disqualify anyone who is claimed to have existed because they performed such miracles. No miracles, no miracle-workers.

That doesn't make sense. Who is claiming that Jesus existed "because" he worked miracles? Most theists say he existed "and" he worked miracles. I don't see that the spurious (but relatively common) claim of miracle-working has any bearing on whether the person actually existed.

To reiterate: Peter Popoff claims to work miracles. He exists.

Christians assume that the bible is the holy word of god and that its stories provide proof of the divinity of Jesus. What establishes the divinity of Jesus is his alleged miracle-working powers. In theory, only a deity could do what Jesus is claimed to have done. Take away the miracles and you just have an itinerant public speaker that you could find on any weekend at Speaker's Corner in London.

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