Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Brett89 · 06-08-2007, 10:59 AM

My pastor this sunday brought up Evolution and Creation, and he basically said, the only "proof" or "evidence" we have of God, is his supposed "creation" of the universe. So basically, he ment.......looking outside and the stuff around us is proof that the Hebrew god exists, thats all

Clouseau · 06-08-2007, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brett89

My pastor this sunday brought up Evolution and Creation, and he basically said, the only "proof" or "evidence" we have of God, is his supposed "creation" of the universe. So basically, he ment.......looking outside and the stuff around us is proof that the Hebrew god exists, thats all

He's possibly realised that Young Earth Creationism (YECism) is now a dead end, and is finally resorting to Scripture, as evolutionary Christians have been doing for a long time.

'What may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. Because since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities — his eternal power and divine nature — have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.' Rom 1:19-20

In the face of this, YECism is nonsense, because not only is God's existence taken as obvious to mankind, but his nature also.

But your pastor is deeply heretical, because he has omitted to add this:

'Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment.' John 16:7-8 NIV

So for the Christian, proof of God is not only unnecessary, it is a red herring. The Christian preaches the gospel, and leaves it at that.

Toto · 06-08-2007, 11:47 AM

There's no Biblical Criticism here - let's try it in General Religious Discussions

BruceWane · 06-08-2007, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brett89

My pastor this sunday brought up Evolution and Creation, and he basically said, the only "proof" or "evidence" we have of God, is his supposed "creation" of the universe. So basically, he ment.......looking outside and the stuff around us is proof that the Hebrew god exists, thats all

Bzzzzzzt. Sorry, wrong answer.

Looking outside at the stuff around us is proof only that the stuff around us exists.

The common form of this fallacy is "existence is proof of creation".

But it's not. Existence is simply proof of existence. To determine the origin of existence requires further investigation.

naturalist.atheist · 06-08-2007, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brett89

My pastor this sunday brought up Evolution and Creation, and he basically said, the only "proof" or "evidence" we have of God, is his supposed "creation" of the universe. So basically, he ment.......looking outside and the stuff around us is proof that the Hebrew god exists, thats all

In other words god is the explanation for the universe.

Okay, what can you predict about the universe assuming that god created it?

Selsaral · 06-08-2007, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brett89

My pastor this sunday brought up Evolution and Creation, and he basically said, the only "proof" or "evidence" we have of God, is his supposed "creation" of the universe. So basically, he ment.......looking outside and the stuff around us is proof that the Hebrew god exists, thats all

Well, if that's true, it's equally proof that the Cosmic Space Monkeys exist, as they are known to create universes too (it says so right here in this book).

BALDUCCI · 06-08-2007, 02:13 PM

How does he know the universe was created ? That is an assumption, which would make God an assumption too

Morethancaffine · 06-08-2007, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brett89

My pastor this sunday brought up Evolution and Creation, and he basically said, the only "proof" or "evidence" we have of God, is his supposed "creation" of the universe. So basically, he ment.......looking outside and the stuff around us is proof that the Hebrew god exists, thats all

Here's what I've said on this subject in the past:

Quote:

The only thing that can conclusively prove the existance of gods are those gods themselves. It really would not be that hard for an omnipitant, all-powerful being, would it? And yet, there is no curtain call, no peeking out from behind the fabric of reailty. All it would take is a little booming voice from the heavens here, a bit of manupulation of time and space there. The fact is that, these things do not happen. If the best that any of these gods can muster is a bit of a questionable image on a burned cheese sandwich or a tortilla, I'll pass on worshiping them.

So, as what was stated earlier, existance only proves existance. It will take a god to prove a god, and mankind is still waiting.

06-08-2007, 10:59 AM	#1
Brett89 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Media, Pennsylvania Posts: 75	Proof of God through creation My pastor this sunday brought up Evolution and Creation, and he basically said, the only "proof" or "evidence" we have of God, is his supposed "creation" of the universe. So basically, he ment.......looking outside and the stuff around us is proof that the Hebrew god exists, thats all

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06-08-2007, 11:47 AM	#3
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	There's no Biblical Criticism here - let's try it in General Religious Discussions

06-08-2007, 02:13 PM	#7
BALDUCCI Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: scotland Posts: 365	How does he know the universe was created ? That is an assumption, which would make God an assumption too

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