rmadison

Was Mary married to Joseph whenever the lawd filled her with his...ahem...spirit, or was she just engaged?

According to Matthew, the answer (not surprisingly) is both.

Matthew 1:18-19

The Birth of Jesus Christ

This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit. Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.

Which is it? Was she pledged to be married, as it states, or was she already married, as it implies when it says that "Joseph her husband..." ?

I thought marriage was one of those deals where you were either in, or you were out? How could Joseph divorce Mary, if he wasn't already married to her?

As far as I know, this is a new contradiction. I checked over at SAB, and didn't see it over there, so maybe it is.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.co...a/by_book.html

What do you guys think? Sure looks like a contradiction to me.

judge

It is indicating to the reader that Joseph in verse 19 is not the same man as joseph in verse 16.
One is her husband and one is her father. Verse 16 has just referred to Joseph the gowra or father of mary , and so the author then differentiates between the other man named joseph who is her baala or husband (to be)

Roller

So she was pledged to marry her father?

Peter Kirby

Some relevant information:

"Jesus' conception took place when Mary was betrothed to Joseph. In Jewish law betrothal, which lasted about one year, was much more than our engagement. It was a binding contract, terminable only by death (which left the betrothed a 'widow') or by a divorce as for a full marriage. The man was already the husband (v. 19), but the woman remained in her father's house. The marriage was completed when the husband took the betrothed to his home in a public ceremony (v. 24; cf. 25:1-13); thus they came together, and sexual intercourse could begin." (R. T. France, Matthew, p. 77)

"In the Law (Deut xxii 13 ff.) betrothal was a far more binding step than is our custom of engagement before marraige, and the penalty for fornication with one person while betrothed to another was death for both guilty parties. Cf. vs. 19, where Joseph is described as her husband, and vs. 20, where the Greek can be translated 'Do not be afraid to take Mary your wife'--i.e., into your home." (C. S. Mann, Matthew, pp. 7-8)

best,
Peter Kirby

Kosh

It did? So when it says:

Perhaps that phrase "the husband of Mary" meant something different back then? Or is this one of those invisable commas that lets believers interpret things differently?

Let me get you a ladder for that hole....

rlogan

hey Bagster - hows it going.

Check out the blue letter bible. It gives the greek and direct translation. In this case, it is "put her away privily" as opposed to divorce:

Blue letter Matthew 1:19

Hope I did that URL right.

Funny thing - when i used my greek translator to find the ancient greek for "divorce" - it came back empty handed.

judge

Yes..two different aramaic words were both translated into the greek word "aner".
Here is an aramaic interlinear of Matthew chapt 1.

http://www.peshitta.org/pdf/Mattich1.pdf

Amos

No contradiction at all. It just shows how Mary can become the "bride of the lamb" later in Rev.21:9. That is, if Joseph is the father of Mary and the father of Jesus it is inevitable that these two are true kindred spirits.

Adora

She was pledged, engaged, whatever you want to call it. The ancient Jewish form of engagement usually started when the girl was 4 or 5, and went until she was married as soon as after she'd started having her periods. Since it was a business deal, Joseph, technically, had every right to refuse her marriage, since she was damaged goods, divinely impregnated or not. I think that phrase is either badly interpreted, or suggesting a retrospective view of the whole deal (ie- when Jo was her husband he was good, nevermind the earlier misdiscrtions).

rmadison

So, was she married, or wasn't she?

Betrothed =! married
Engaged =! married
Pledged =! married

I think it's a little important whether she was married or not.

If she was married, then it would appear god had just committed adultery. Even if she were "only" betrothed, it doesn't seem like a very honorable thing to do. I mean c'mon...all the girls in the world and god just has to pick out one already in a relationship.

If she wasn't married, then maybe Matthew shouldn't refer to Joseph as her husband.