stephan huller

More:

(1) Jacob makes the name of the pond Siloam (he uses Btth Hesda, ' House of Kindness ', rather as an epithet than a proper name). So Ephraim (Moes. p. 146): 'Si enim credunt, per aquam Siloe angelum sanasse infirmum,' &c. (cf. Jn. ix 7, n).

(2) Jacob (Bedjan, p. 709), after quoting : ' Lord, I have no man,' &c., goes on : ' My limbs are paralysed, and to approach and push my way I am not able,

stephan huller

And here is the material which (in some form) begins the Marcionite gospel. It would seem to me at least that the Marcionite gospel according to our sources. That the Marcionite gospel was like a Diatessaron (= containing or 'mixing' narratives found in the canonical four is witnessed by Eznik and apparent from the citations of the Fathers). That is began with Bethsaida rather than Capernaum is apparent from the order in Luke (and the substitution that Ephrem tells us of 'Bethsaida' for 'Nazareth'). Also look again at Clement's citation of the 'beginning of Luke':

Notice that the various references in Jacob of Serug seem to come from this section too (= the Good Physician,' 'the Lord of the Sabbath' reference etc.). I wouldn't be surprised if Jesus came down from heaven to the 'House of the Field' (= the Dosithean 'Bethel' in Joseph's field near Shechem) which happened to have some sort of healing pool:

Duvduv

I have not come across any reference to the place called Kfar Nachum in the early rabbinical writings except for a reference in the midrash called Kohelet Rabbah 1:8 which mentions the "sons of Kfar-Nahum" who were sectarians (minim). The reference is to Rabbi Joshua son of Hananiah at the beginning of the second century.

So whether the reference to Capernaum in the gospels is a throwback to a village considered to be of unnamed heretics against rabbinical Judaism in the 1st century is unclear.

Looking at a map of the Galilee we see that Sepphoris is 4 miles north of Nazareth, and Capernaum on the Sea of Galilee is about 30 miles north of Nazareth, with Cana about 4 miles to the east of Nazareth. Bethsaida looks about 5 miles east of Capernaum in the Golan.

Does Christian doctrine explain WHEN the town and sea became associated with the name of the emperor Tiberius? Was it before he died or afterwards? GJohn has the only references to the sea with that name, and the other gospels do not mention the town but refer to the body of water as Galilee. They also have no reference to a town called Tiberias, despite the fact that Josephus mentions it by name allegedly in the first century. If Tiberias was first known as Emmaus, then it is interesting that GJohn does not mention it, although some view Emmaus as near Jerusalem.

stephan huller

Thanks duvduv

And just to counter Andrew's consistent argument that Clement is paraphrasing our Luke rather than another text. Where on earth does he think this passage is from:

ἦν δὲ Ἰησοῦς ἐρχόμενος ἐπὶ τὸ βάπτισμα ὡς ἐτῶν λʹ

Luke 3:23

Καὶ αὐτὸς ἦν Ἰησοῦς ἀρχόμενος ὡσεὶ ἐτῶν τριάκοντα, ὢν υἱὸς, ὡς ἐνομίζετο Ἰωσήφ τοῦ Ἠλὶ

I am sorry this is not our Luke. The other passages show similar variation. This is a gospel which resembled Luke (at least here) but was ultimately different from Luke. This was the beginning of that gospel. And notice the ambiguity about whether or not Jesus was baptizing or being baptized:

Ἰησοῦς ἐρχόμενος ἐπὶ τὸ βάπτισμα = Jesus coming to the baptism

The translator of the Stromata here seems to be slavishly following the KJV of Matthew. There is no certainty that this gospel had Jesus baptized by John. It speaks only of 'the baptism' at about thirty years. Strangely the paralytic at Bethsaida has also been lame for thirty some years. I wonder if the 'eight' was just added later.

Matthew also has the Pharisees and the Jews come to 'the baptism' speaking now of John's activities in the Jordan. I have always had problems with Jesus being baptized by John which apparently was not in the Marcionite gospel. Here is another reason for thinking that the god coming out of heaven wasn't baptized by John. Instead I think immediately went into someone and healed them.

stephan huller

Here is Ephrem's testimony to the Marcionite substitution of Bethsaida:

I think this helps settle things. Ephrem is clearly referencing the (unrecognized) understanding that the Marcionite gospel began with 'Bethsaida' (= Jesus came down to a place of this name) rather than Capernaum. Origen and Jerome are preserving the heretical tradition for some reason with their references to Capernaum meaning 'field' which is untenable otherwise.

Duvduv

Stephan, I added a few things to my last posting. However, it occurred to me to now wonder about the rationale as to WHY the authors of the gospels had to refer so strongly to relatively obscure settlements in the Galilee near the water for the life of Jesus. What was it about these places that the authors were so interested in? Why didn't they spend more time on the well-known towns of Hebron, Bethlehem, Bethel, Jaffa, etc etc.? Aside from Jerusalem of course.

Were the authors of the gospel stories originally from the Galilee, so ALL of them felt most comfortable referencing those towns, or at least following the lead from GMark who may have originally been from that region?

stephan huller

Because Samaria = heresy. What's the next best choice if it wasn't Judea? And don't forget the gospel certainly DID reference Galilee. I just think it started in Samaria because the heavenly ladder was at Gerizim/Beth El. That had to go if you want to make Jesus a man.

Chili

Nice lines and significane here is his age of 38, which is midlife to point at meno-pause when the jump-shift from Yang to Yin must be made. Meno here means "I remain" as the time set aside in life to make this jump, from the left into the right.

So first of all, it is a mid-life dis-ease wherein he himself was not able to make the shift as that is a non-rational event wherein the I is lame and needs assistence to make this jump and therefore 'paralytic' is the right word.

The whole page is an elaboration of this, wherein sins are all, and they mean all that pertains to the human condition inside the TOK that is known as Lymbic System today for which Limbo is short to designate non Baptized believers wherein tradition must later become the Eminent Will that stirrs and moves everthing here must stirr the will to make the jump into the woving water that is begging him to make the jump.

Just literature is all it is wherein you must see the allegory by the words expressed.

Duvduv

Except that here we are talking about a few towns in a semi-circle around the lake each a few miles a way, at least if we say that GMark led the way. Samaria could be on the way to Galilee, but it isn't as important as those places further north.

As I once mentioned before, the Samaritan woman in GJohn 4 said that her people USED TO worship at Gerizim (which would have only been before it was prohibited after Constantine) and not CURRENTLY worshiping there.

stephan huller

right, as i demonstrated in another thread, the Dositheans had Beth-El in the field (= Balatah meadow) near Shechem where the Dosithean woman was standing in John. the Samaritan position was POTENTIALLY sacred in the Era of Favor but not now