Freethought & Rationalism Archive

stephan huller · 03-27-2013, 10:28 PM

The right answer is Capernaum = Village of Consolation. The standard explanation is that the village was named after an individual of that name. But I like to think about why people think what they think. Why does Origen think that the first word means 'field' rather than 'village.' I think the idea actually came from something in Heracleon's lost Commentary on the gospel. We start with Heracleon's Commentary as it was cited in Origen's Commentary on John:

Quote:

But Heracleon, dealing with the words, " After this He went down to Capernaum, " declares that they indicate the introduction of another transaction, and that the word " went down " is not without significance. " Capernaum, " he says, " means these farthest-out parts of the world, these districts of matter, into which He descended, and because the place was not suitable, he says, He is not reported either to have done anything or said anything in it. "

Ὁ μέντοι γε Ἡρακλέων τὸ «Μετὰ τοῦτο κατέβη εἰς Καφαρναοὺμ αὐτὸς» διηγούμενος ἄλλης πάλιν οἰκονομίας ἀρχήν φησι δηλοῦσθαι, οὐκ ἀργῶς τοῦ
«Κατέ <βη>« εἰρημένου· καί φησι τὴν Καφαρναοὺμ σημαίνειν ταῦτα τὰ ἔσχατα τοῦ κόσμου, ταῦτα τὰ ὑλικὰ εἰς ἃ κατῆλθεν· καὶ διὰ τὸ ἀνοίκειον, φησίν, εἶναι τὸν τόπον οὐδὲ πεποιηκώς τι λέγεται ἐν αὐτῇ ἢ λελαληκώς. [Comm John 10.11.48 - 49]

As for the passage presently before us, it gives in the order of events that on the sixth day the Saviour, after the business of the marriage at Cana of Galilee, went down with His mother and His brothers and His disciples to Capernaum, which means " field of consolation. " For after the feasting and the wine it was fitting that the Saviour should come to the field of consolation with His mother and His disciples, to console those whom He was training for disciples and the soul which had conceived Him by the Holy Ghost, with the fruits which were to stand in that full field.

Κατὰ μέντοι γε τὸν προκείμενον τόπον ἀκολούθως νομίζομεν τῇ ἕκτῃ ἡμέρᾳ τὸν σωτῆρα, ὅτε γεγένηται ἡ κατὰ τὸν γάμον οἰκονομία ἐν Κανᾷ τῆς Γαλιλαίας, καταβεβηκέναι ἅμα τῇ μητρὶ καὶ τοῖς ἀδελφοῖς καὶ τοῖς μαθηταῖς εἰς τὴν Καφαρναούμ, ὅπερ ἑρμηνεύεται «ἀγρὸς παρακλήσεως». Ἐχρῆν γὰρ μετὰ τὴν ἐν τῷ οἴνῳ εὐωχίαν καὶ εἰς τὸν τῆς «παρακλήσεως ἀγρὸν» ἅμα τῇ μητρὶ καὶ τοῖς μαθηταῖς ἐληλυθέναι τὸν σωτῆρα, παρακαλέσοντα ἐπὶ τοῖς ἐν τῷ πλήρει ἀγρῷ ἐσομένοις καρποῖς τοὺς μαθητευομένους καὶ τὴν συνει ληφυῖαν αὐτὸν ψυχὴν ἐκ τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος, ἢ τοὺς ἐκεῖ ὠφελησομένους. [Comm John 10.8 - 9.39]

For if His mother is called, then there are some bearing fruit, and even to these the Lord goes down with the servants and disciples of the Word, to help such persons, His mother also being with Him. Those indeed who are called Capernaum appear not to be able to allow Jesus and those who went down with Him to make a longer stay with them: hence they remain with them not many days. For the lower field of consolation does not admit the illumination of many doctrines, but is only capable of a few.

ὅτι εἰ καλεῖται μήτηρ αὐτοῦ, εἰσί τινες καρποφοροῦντες, πρὸς οὓς αὐτός τε καταβαίνει ὁ κύριος σὺν τοῖς ὑπηρέταις τοῦ λόγου καὶ μαθηταῖς, τοὺς τοιούτους ὠφελῶν, καὶ τῆς μητρὸς αὐτῷ συμπαρούσης. Ἐοίκασίν γε οἱ καλούμενοι Καφαρναοὺμ μὴ χωρεῖν τὴν ἐπιπλεῖον διατριβὴν παρ' αὐτοῖς τοῦ Ἰησοῦ καὶ τῶν συγκατα βαινόντων αὐτῷ· ὅθεν μένουσι μὲν παρ' αὐτοῖς, οὐ μὴν πολλὰς ἡμέρας· τὸν γὰρ περὶ τῶν πλειόνων δογμάτων φωτισμὸν ὁ τῆς κατωτέρω «παρακλήσεως ἀγρὸς» οὐ χωρεῖ, ὀλιγωτέρων τυγχάνων δεκτικός. [ibid 10.9.41]

If we compare all these points together, we shall not go astray in the meaning we ascribe to Capernaum. On the one hand, the sick are healed, and other works of power are done there, and on the other, the preaching, Repent ye, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand, begins there, and this appears to be a sign, as we showed when entering on this subject, of some more needy place of consolation, made so perhaps by Jesus, who comforted men by what He taught and by what He did there, in that place of consolation. For we know that the names of places agree in their meaning with the things connected with Jesus

Ταῦτα γὰρ ἀλλήλοις συντεθέντα οὐκ ἐάσει ἡμᾶς διαπεσεῖν εἰς τὴν περὶ τῆς Καφαρναοὺμ ἐκδοχήν. Πλὴν εἰ καὶ νοσοῦντες ἐκεῖ θεραπεύονται καὶ ἄλλαι δυνάμεις ἐκεῖ γίνονται, τό τε κηρύσσειν «Ἤγγικεν ἡ βασιλεία τῶν οὐρανῶν» ἐκεῖθεν ἄρχεται, ἔοικεν εἶναι σύμβολον, ὡς κατὰ τὰς ἀρχὰς ὑπεδειξάμεθα, ὑποδεεστέρου τινὸς «χωρίου παρακλήσεως», τάχα διὰ τὸν Ἰησοῦν γινομένου παρακα λέσαντα ἐφ' οἷς ἐδίδαξεν καὶ πεποίηκεν ἐκεῖ τοῦ τόπου «χωρίου παρακλήσεως». Ἴσμεν γὰρ καὶ τόπων ὀνόματα ἐπώνυμα τυγχάνοντα τοῖς κατὰ τὸν Ἰησοῦν πράγμασιν [ibid 10.12.63]

The son, however, is in Capharnaum. He who is sick and is healed, who is in the "field of consolation," represents those who have become weary, but who are not completely devoid of fruits. And the father's faith reaches its highest perfection when he, along with all his household, believes in Christ after he has come to know of his son's salvation.

Ὁ ἐν Καφαρναοὺμ μέντοι γε υἱός ἐστιν, ὁ νοσῶν καὶ θεραπευόμενος ὁ ἐν τῷ τῆς «παρακλήσεως ἀγρῷ», γένος τι κεκμηκότων μὲν οὐ πάντη δὲ ἔξω καρπῶν γεγενημένων· καὶ τελειοτάτη γνόντι τῷ πατρὶ τὴν τοῦ υἱοῦ σωτηρίαν ἡ πίστις γίνεται πανοικεὶ πιστεύοντι Χριστῷ. [ibid 13.59.410]

stephan huller · 03-27-2013, 10:41 PM

Here is Jerome attempting to make sense of this http://books.google.com/books?id=_i6...ion%22&f=false

outhouse · 03-27-2013, 10:51 PM

I read "comfort" in about every description out there as well.

Maybe it had been abandoned for a short period after the temple fell.

It was a rather poor little hovel, with a very low population.

stephan huller · 03-27-2013, 10:59 PM

It's curious that the Marcionite gospel - theoretically - has Jesus floating down from heaven to 'Capernaum.' Heracleon, Origen and Marcion seem to know the same tradition in some respect (= Jesus floating down to a place called 'Capernaum').

stephan huller · 03-27-2013, 11:04 PM

I wonder whether there was a gospel text that had קָצִיר (harvest) in place of כְּפַר (village) of consolation. If God was going to come down from heaven, the logical place for that to have occurred is at Beth El where Jacob saw the angels descending and ascending. Genesis 28 is even referenced earlier in John chapter 1. Since Jesus does appear at this very place (= Shechem) to talk to the 'Samaritan woman' the closing dialogue there seems to reinforce this idea:

Quote:

“My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. 35 Don’t you have a saying, ‘It’s still four months until harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. 36 Even now the one who reaps draws a wage and harvests a crop for eternal life, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad together. 37 Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ is true. 38 I sent you to reap what you have not worked for. Others have done the hard work, and you have reaped the benefits of their labor.”

I wonder whether this was the ending of the first narrative in the original gospel. Jesus comes down the heavenly ladder and meets Foti or Fotina (= the Samaritan woman). The original reference was to his coming to 'the harvest of consolation' and then the discussion with the woman and then what we just cited above.

It's a strange thing to start a gospel with God majestically descending from the sky down to a trailer park, a Domino's Pizza or a Seven Eleven.

קָצִיר noun masculineJeremiah 8:20 harvesting, harvest (compare LagBN 173); — absolute ׳ק Genesis 45:6 +, construct קְצִיר Judges 15:1 +; suffix קְצִירְךָ Leviticus 19:9 +, etc.; — harvest:
1 process of harvesting, Genesis 45:6 (E; + חָרִישׁ), Ruth 2:21.

2 what is reaped, harvested, crop, specifically of grain: Genesis 8:22 (+זֶרַע; J), Isaiah 17:11 (figurative; compare נוד; "" זֶרַע), יְאֹר ׳ק Isaiah 23:3 ("" id.) i.e. exported grain of Egypt; חִטִּים ׳קְ Exodus 34:22 (JE), insert also 2 Samuel 24:15 (ᵐ5 Th We Dr and others), ׳לֶקֶט ק Leviticus 19:9; b Leviticus 23:22 b; ׳ק as eaten Jeremiah 5:17; Job 5:5 (but read here קָֽצְרוּ ᵐ5 Me Bu and others, compare BevJphil. xxvi. 304); as accusative of congnate meaning with verb with קָצַר 1 Samuel 8:12; Deuteronomy 24:19; Leviticus 19:9a; Leviticus 23:10 (twice in verse); Leviticus 23:22 a ׳סְפִיחַ ק Leviticus 25:5 (all H), חִטִּים ׳קְ 1 Samuel 6:13; of ripe grain Isaiah 1:11 (שָׂדֶה ׳קְ), Isaiah 4:13 (׳בָּשַׁל ק); figurative of punishment Hosea 6:11; of vintage Isaiah 16:9 ("" קַיִץ; read probably בָּצִיר as "" Jeremiah 48:32, BuhlLex 13).

3 time of harvest, Exodus 34:21 (+ חָרִישׁ; J E), 2 Samuel 21:10 (2 Samuel 23:13 read הַצּוּר as "" 1 Chronicles 11:15, so ᵐ5L for Lucian Th We and most), Isaiah 9:2 (simile), Isaiah 18:5 (figurative), Jeremiah 5:24, "" קַיִץ Jeremiah 8:20; Proverbs 6:8; Proverbs 10:5; Proverbs 26:1 (simile); opposed to חרֶף Proverbs 20:4; ׳יְמֵי ק Joshua 3:21 (JE), 2 Samuel 21:9 a ׳יוֺם ק Proverbs 25:13 (simile), ׳עֵח(הַֿ) ק Jeremiah 50:16; Jeremiah 51:33 (figurative); of wheatharvest, חִטִּים ׳יְמֵי קְ Genesis 30:14 (J), Judges 15:1, without יְמֵי Ruth 2:23 b, הַיּוֺם ׳חֿ׳הֲלוֺא קְ 1 Samuel 12:17; barley harvest, (הַ)שְׂצֹרִים ׳קְ 2 Samuel 21:9b Ruth 1:22; Ruth 2:23a; Isaiah 18:4; חֹם קָצִיר Isaiah 18:4; ׳חַג הַקּ Exodus 23:16 (E). On harvest in Palestine see VogelstLandwirthsch. 57 ff. HaymanSmith DB AGRICULTURE. — Isaiah 17:5 read קֹצֵר, see קָצִר.

II. קָצִיר noun masculineIsaiah 27:11 usually collective, boughs, branches (connection with above √ dubious); — absolute ׳ק Job 14:9; suffix קְצִירִי Job 29:19 (in figurative; "" שֹׁרֶשׁ), קְצִירוֺ Job 18:16 (figurative; "" id.); קְצִירָהּ Isaiah 27:11; plural sf, קְצִירֶיהָ Psalm 80:12.

קְצָת see I. קצה.

קַר, קֹר see I. קרר. קִר see I. קִיר.

outhouse · 03-27-2013, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

It's a strange thing to start a gospel with God majestically descending from the sky down to a trailer park, a Domino's Pizza or a Seven Eleven.

.

And having him originating from a worse hovel, Nazareth.

maryhelena · 03-28-2013, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

The right answer is Capernaum = Village of Consolation. The standard explanation is that the village was named after an individual of that name. But I like to think about why people think what they think.

<snip>

Stephan, here is an old post of mine on Capernaum:
----------------------------------
http://www.freeratio.org/thearchives...48#post6286548

I’m getting rather interested in Capernaum...

Wikipedia Capernnaum

Quote:

Archaeological evidence demonstrates that the town came into existence in the second century BC, in the Hasmonean period. The site had no defensive wall and extended along the shore of the nearby lake (from east to west).

No mention of what exactly is the archaeological evidence. Do you know if there is some evidence that actually says that this site is the Capernaum of the gospel story?

I know Josephus has some story re falling off his horse and was taken to Capernaum.

Life: 72

Quote:

..... 72. As soon as I had gotten intelligence of this, I sent two thousand armed men, and a captain over them, whose name was Jeremiah, who raised a bank a furlong off Julias, near to the river Jordan, and did no more than skirmish with the enemy;.........And I had performed great things that day, if a certain fate had not been my hinderance; for the horse on which I rode, and upon whose back I fought, fell into a quagmire, and threw me on the ground, and I was bruised on my wrist, and carried into a village named Cepharnome, or Capernaum. When my soldiers heard of this, they were afraid I had been worse hurt than I was; and so they did not go on with their pursuit any further, but returned in very great concern for me. I therefore sent for the physicians, and while I was under their hands, I continued feverish that day; and as the physicians directed, I was that night removed to Taricheee.

The issue I have with this is the date - around 99 ce - and that earlier, around 75 ce, Josephus seems to be telling a more interesting story re Capernaum...

Josephus War ch.3 published around 75 ce.

Quote:

7. Now this lake of Gennesareth is so called from the country adjoining to it. Its breadth is forty furlongs, and its length one hundred and forty; its waters are sweet, and very agreeable for drinking, for they are finer than the thick waters of other fens; the lake is also pure, and on every side ends directly at the shores, and at the sand; it is also of a temperate nature when you draw it up, and of a more gentle nature than river or fountain water, and yet always cooler than one could expect in so diffuse a place as this is. Now when this water is kept in the open air, it is as cold as that snow which the country people are accustomed to make by night in summer. There are several kinds of fish in it, different both to the taste and the sight from those elsewhere. It is divided into two parts by the river Jordan. Now Panium is thought to be the fountain of Jordan, but in reality it is carried thither after an occult manner from the place called Phiala: this place lies as you go up to Trachonitis, and is a hundred and twenty furlongs from Cesarea, and is not far out of the road on the right hand; and indeed it hath its name of Phiala [vial or bowl] very justly, from the roundness of its circumference, as being round like a wheel; its water continues always up to its edges, without either sinking or running over. And as this origin of Jordan was formerly not known, it was discovered so to be when Philip was tetrarch of Trachonitis; for he had chaff thrown into Phiala, and it was found at Paninto, where the ancients thought the fountain-head of the river was, whither it had been therefore carried [by the waters]. As for Panium itself, its natural beauty had been improved by the royal liberality of Agrippa, and adorned at his expenses. Now Jordan's visible stream arises from this cavern, and divides the marshes and fens of the lake Semechonitis; when it hath run another hundred and twenty furlongs, it first passes by the city Julias, and then passes through the middle of the lake Gennesareth; after which it runs a long way over a desert, and then makes its exit into the lake Asphaltitis.

8. The country also that lies over against this lake hath the same name of Gennesareth; its nature is wonderful as well as its beauty; its soil is so fruitful that all sorts of trees can grow upon it, and the inhabitants accordingly plant all sorts of trees there; for the temper of the air is so well mixed, that it agrees very well with those several sorts, particularly walnuts, which require the coldest air, flourish there in vast plenty; there are palm trees also, which grow best in hot air; fig trees also and olives grow near them, which yet require an air that is more temperate. One may call this place the ambition of nature, where it forces those plants that are naturally enemies to one another to agree together; it is a happy contention of the seasons, as if every one of them laid claim to this country; for it not only nourishes different sorts of autumnal fruit beyond men's expectation, but preserves them a great while; it supplies men with the principal fruits, with grapes and figs continually, during ten months of the year (7) and the rest of the fruits as they become ripe together through the whole year; for besides the good temperature of the air, "it is also watered from a most fertile fountain.The people of the country call it Capharnaum. Some have thought it to be a vein of the Nile, because it produces the Coracin fish as well as that lake does which is near to Alexandria. The length of this country extends itself along the banks of this lake that bears the same name for thirty furlongs, and is in breadth twenty, And this is the nature of that place.

With such talk of water and fountains and wonderful beauty in nature, soil that is fruitful and palm trees and fig and olive trees - this place is the ambition of nature - plants that are natural enemies agree together, a happy contention of the seasons, supplies fruit beyond men’s expectation...Are we not seeing here a vision of Camelot, of Arcadia?

Taking Josephus at his word, that he was not unfamiliar with the prophets etc and had visions and could interpreted them - is he not here dealing with an abstract ideal rather than the geography of the region? And if he was familiar with the geography of the region why the tall story re Philip: “Philip was tetrarch of Trachonitis; for he had chaff thrown into Phiala, and it was found at Paninto”.

Quote:

“The Jordan’s course from Banias, through the swamps of the Huleh (Semechonitis),into the Sea of Galilee (Gennesarat) and finally the Dead Sea (Asphaltitis), is of course accurately traced. But it is geologically impossible for water to run from the Phiale (nowcalled Birkat Ram) to Banias. Nevertheless, Josephus says that Philip, whom he calls ‘tetrarch of Trachonitis’, himself made this gravity-defying discovery by means of a scientific experiment.The king ‘had chaff thrown into the pool of Phiale and found it cast up at Panion’. Since this result is physically impossible, given the geological relationship of the two sites, we can only speculate that Philip’s assistants in this experiment, eager to please, manipulated the evidence to match the king’s theory".

CAESAREA PHILIPPI: BANIAS, THE LOST CITY OF PAN: John Francis Wilson

So, we have Josephus giving an idealist utopian landscape that is watered from a fertile fountain that the people call Capernaum - - and he adds to this story an incident regarding Philip that is plainly not in accord with the region’s geography.

This is the Josephus of around 75 ce - a Josephus with a keen sense of idealism - and then we have the later Josephus, writing around 99 ce, who remembers that years ago he fell of his horse and that the name of the place he got taken to was Capernaum - though he quickly moved on to somewhere else...

Perhaps the archaeological evidence does establish that Capernaum existed around the time of the gospel storyline - however, from the early writing of Josephus - it seems evident that the name ‘Capernaum’ might well have had a more philosophical connotation as well...’Capernaum’ as the source of the water of life....

Anyway, whatever, bottom line is that the gospel storyline is quick to get Jesus out of Nazareth and on the road to Capernaum...why Capernaum is the question...

(my formating)

----------------------------------

CAESAREA PHILIPPI: BANIAS, THE LOST CITY OF PAN: John Francis Wilson (or via: amazon.co.uk)

Duvduv · 03-28-2013, 07:56 AM

How does Kfar Nahum (Village of Nahum) get turned into "Field of Consolation"?
Surely the latter would be known as Sdeh Nechama.........

stephan huller · 03-28-2013, 09:54 AM

Thanks Mary

I think Origen makes reference to a fountain somewhere too in relation to Capernaum. My Samaritan friend Benny is looking to see if there is any connection to the field in front of Gerizim near Shechem.

maryhelena · 03-28-2013, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

Thanks Mary

I think Origen makes reference to a fountain somewhere too in relation to Capernaum. My Samaritan friend Benny is looking to see if there is any connection to the field in front of Gerizim near Shechem.

Your welcome....

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03-27-2013, 10:41 PM	#2
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Here is Jerome attempting to make sense of this http://books.google.com/books?id=_i6...ion%22&f=false

03-27-2013, 10:51 PM	#3
outhouse Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Auburn ca Posts: 4,269	I read "comfort" in about every description out there as well. Maybe it had been abandoned for a short period after the temple fell. It was a rather poor little hovel, with a very low population.

03-27-2013, 10:59 PM	#4
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	It's curious that the Marcionite gospel - theoretically - has Jesus floating down from heaven to 'Capernaum.' Heracleon, Origen and Marcion seem to know the same tradition in some respect (= Jesus floating down to a place called 'Capernaum').

03-28-2013, 07:56 AM	#8
Duvduv Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: USA Posts: 4,095	How does Kfar Nahum (Village of Nahum) get turned into "Field of Consolation"? Surely the latter would be known as Sdeh Nechama.........

03-28-2013, 09:54 AM	#9
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Thanks Mary I think Origen makes reference to a fountain somewhere too in relation to Capernaum. My Samaritan friend Benny is looking to see if there is any connection to the field in front of Gerizim near Shechem.

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