Equinox

As many of us know, a common Christian apologetic response to “why are some Biblical rules tossed and others still valid?” is that those affirmed both in the OT and the NT are still valid, while those affirmed in just the OT have been removed by Jesus.

Granting that explanation (for this discussion), then, for example, the rule to not murder is still valid, since it is mentioned in the OT (such as Ex 20:13) and the NT (Mt 19:18). While the command to sacrifice a ram for a guilt offering (Lev 5:14) is done away with by Jesus because it isn’t mentioned in the NT. (Yes, I know, there are problems with this apologetic, but let’s grant it for this thread).

Now, based on that, would it seem that the Bible commands that Christians are to kill those in other religions? This is of course common in the OT, a clear example is Dt 13:

Then, in the NT, Jesus says in the parable of the 10 minas (Lk 19) :


Is the king in Lk 19 Jesus? It seems to me that he is. Any idea of what a common Christian response might be? I'd expect an attempt to say that the king in the 10 mina parable isn't Jesus - but that seems a stretch.

The Pauline verses about unequal yoking and such are somewhat relevant, but those seem to apply to special situations, such as a previously married couple having one spouse but not the other convert.

Have a good day-

Equinox

Toto

We last discussed the parable of the 10 minas in this thread (The Nice Bible?) You can see the varied interpretations there.

winthrop

The way the commands work out in our current spot of redemptive history...

• The ceremonial laws have passed away after Christ completed His work
• The judicial laws are applications of the moral law and as such can be used as case law, but are not to be administered verbatim based on different circumstances
• The moral law, as summed up in the 10 commandments, is always in force.

This passage is not speaking of those outside of the OT Church, it is speaking of those within it. And yes, within a theonomic nation that is what would take place.
But it is the government that has the power of the sword not the Church, so in the NT we are commanded to excommunicate those who in the OT would have been killed.


Yes, that is a reference to God giving those who refuse His authority over to Hell at the end of the age.


Correct, a Christian is not to marry a non-Christian.
If one is married to a non-Christian before one becomes a Christian then you are to remain in the marriage.

Equinox

.........reading through the thread Toto gave..........onto page 3...............more later..............

WVIncagold

• So the NT should just be thrown out? Where does this little interpretation of yours be found?
  
  
  Quote:

  The judicial laws are applications of the moral law and as such can be used as case law, but are not to be administered verbatim based on different circumstances

  Please what case law is found in the bible? In other words you can make shit up if you need to right? There are no judicial laws in the bible. Judicial is rendered by a judge. And if gods law is NOT followed verbatim are you not then disregarding god and what your told to do. rebelling against god i thought is in direct violation of commandment.
  
  
  
  
  Quote:

  The moral law, as summed up in the 10 commandments, is always in force.

So thou shall have no other gods before me, so how is that Jesus thing working for you.

Wow talk about assumptions and tap dancing. You have to really suspend your reasoning ability to make so much shit up that the bible DOES NOT SAY!
You do realize it is a sin to rewrite the word of god. Just because you do not have the moral fortitude to uphold and follow your gods law as commanded you convince your self in such deluded apologetics. Why do you not do what your god commands?

Again it does to say that. you need to bring the enemies to your lord and slay them at his feet. Why are you not following your lords commands?

Talk about being hypocrites. Kill the bitch if you convert. your lord commands you. to do anything else shows your lack of faith and truth in your lord god Jesus. Cowardice is a sin especially when it is cowardice in your faith.

Equinox

Thanks for the link, Toto.

That previous discussion appears to have hashed this out well (at least before degrading into off-topic discussions). From looking at all the points raised, it seems clear that this passage clearly does advocate violence, since Jesus commands Christians to do the killing (elswhere, God/Jesus does the killing himself). It also seems likely that this is referring to what will happen at the second coming - so are many Christians looking forward to the day when they will get to round up the non-Chrisitans and execute them all? Must be.

Until then, it appears that Christians are to go by other passages in the Bible, such as Paul's command to stay with a non-believing spouse, to not marry if one is Christian, and jesus's command to forcibly convert non-chrisitians (Mt 22), or John's command not to let non Christians (or even the wrong denomination of Christian) into your house.

As WVInca pointed out, winthrop appears to be adding to the Bible. It always amazes me how quickly and willingly Christian insert their own particular churche's doctrine into the Bible when it doesn't contain that doctrine. Shows me again that most Christians actually consider their churche's doctrine (or often instead their personal opinion), and have no qualms about changing the Bible if it suits them.

Have a good day-

Equinox

Timetospend

I think that conclusions such as these merely indicate the difficulty of drawing too much from a parable. One can reach just about any conclusion desired by extrapolating points included in what appears to be met as simple teachings.

The passage appears to be teaching simply that those who use their talents appropriately will be rewarded appropriately and those who do not use them appropriately will also receive their just rewards. The last part is reflective of the punishment that losers might receive during the first century if a king returned victoriously to end a rebellion.

Taking this particular parable beyond these simple points is to step into areas that really cannot be substantiated.

Other parts of the NT can be used to indicate that Jesus will return (and Christians will follow him in a way not fully desginated although there is not a lot of evidence to suggest that Christians will do any killing or punishing) to bring punishment on non-Christians.

Thanks,

storytime

According to the story, Jesus was sent to divide his Jewish brethren[people]. Those unwilling to kill for him could not be his disciples. No place for the fearful[cowards] (see Rev.21:8) The text is quite clear, imo. Jesus wanted to become ruler of Jerusalem. His aim to eliminate the Pharisees whom he called liars and sons of the devil. Jesus reminds me of Charlie Manson. Remember how ol Charlie began his death cult? A little soothesaying and a lot of pump to encourage action.

The OT god was a bloodthirsty psychopathic monster. "Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin". Yahweh commanded the Israelites to kill all people in the land of Canaan. Commanded nothing be left alive that had breath within it. Young, old, babes in the belly of the mother. God believed in forced abortion no doubt. And Jesus changed no commands of his god.

Why any sane person wants to remain in this death cult is beyond me. And, if Christians are not willing to kill for Jesus then they can go to hell. They do have a choice it seems. :Cheeky: Like WVIncagold pointed out, the cowards who refuse to kill for Jesus, he will cast out into outer darkness or hell fire to burn forever.

btw, Christians await Jesus return with his angelic army. Jesus will wipe out all the Jews who have not served him. (Millions are already in hell burning as we speak.) Which means, the next thing to happen is that the Jewish state of Israel will be turned over to the Christians as Jesus sits on the throne at Jerusalem ruling the world while he and Christians watch all the Jews fry in hell.

Why, might I ask, do Christians declare "we love Israel"?
Isn't it obvious they don't?

btw, do you think that Christians should take their religion more seriously since it involves extermination of all non Christians? Since it involves ripping babes from the belly of innocent people? I mean, God is one mean character. And he has commanded his death cult to murder and slaughter, so that the blood of people run high to the horses bridles. From Egypt to the Euphraties River. That's a lot a blood.

Malachi151

The bigger issue really is the Old Testament. Certainly the lesson of the Old Testament is that God's Chosen People should exterminate all other people. According to traditional Christian theology the Jews were God's Chosen People, but then they fell out of favor and so the "Christians" are now God's chosen people. Its pretty easy to read the Old Testament into a requirement to kill all non-Christians.

Roger Pearse

<psychotic voice>
I didn't know anyone realised that. Now I'll have to kill you.
</psychotic voice>