Diogenes the Cynic

I'm pretty sure I never said the resurrection was historical unless I had a brain seizure I don't know about. I was only talking about the evolution of the myth.

jdboy

The Gospel of John makes it clear that Mary Magdalene didn't even consider resurrection.
She saw the stone had been moved then ran and told simon and the other disciple that his body had been taken away. Upon examining the empty tomb they believed what Mary told them because they did not know the scripture saying that jesus must rise from the dead.
Of course Jesus appears to Mary but nothing is said about Jesus resurrecting
Below is an excerpt from John explaining why Mary's only thought was that the body had been moved
John 20:1-16 Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.

9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.

10 Then the disciples went away again unto their own home.

aa5874

Is it not strange that the same gJohn has 2 whole chapters on the Post-resurrection visits and that resurrected Jesus COOKED and ATE Fish with his disciples down at the "BEACH PICNIC"???

rizdek

If you read all the supposed accounts of "sightings" of Jesus after he died, they read much like dreams/hallucinations. Here's what I mean. At first the people in the dreams don't recognize him, then gradually...or even later, they seem to realize it WAS Jesus. In the gospels, the accounts can easily be reduced to perhaps 3 or 4 "dream reports" that circulated and became, over the decades, considered to be real. I suppose Peter himself might have reported a few. Perhaps this might be due to his guilt complex or because he smoked weed, I dunno.

SO here's how it might have played out. Peter DREAMS he is walking on a road WITH another person. Someone shows up IN his dream. It turns out that someone...JHMFC, was Jesus himself. Now this doesn't mean he had the dream while walking on a road...he was in bed, or where ever he slept. Neither does it mean there WERE two people who saw whatever was reportedly seen. That other person was part of the dream. We've all had dreams...at least I have...where the dream seems to almost lead itself (for want of a better phrase). You dream you are a kid at home again. Suddenly one of your siblings shows up...because your mind remembers that when you were at home you lived with siblings. Then, again your dream shifts and there's your mother, long deceased. But at first it's not your mother but it somehow becomes your mother...because your mind remembers that you lived at home with your mother and siblings. Happens all the time. We dream of people we know are dead. We meet famous people in our dreams. We imagine large crowds in our dreams. So even "reports" where hundreds supposedly saw a risen savior are simply reports from one person who "dreamed" he/she was in a group of many people and IN THAT DREAM Jesus appeared.

Now to me, that seems a completely logical and natural explanation IF someone is uncomfortable thinking these folks just made stuff up whole-clothe. That may well have happened, that's not my point. It's just that we read where apologists claim that MANY people witnessed these sightings, when it is simpler to just assume ONE person had a dream that included MANY people and told it. They might have even started out telling it AS A DREAM, but with retelling either the fact that it was a dream got lost in translation, or folks (at that time) believed dreams were real and that IF SOMEONE DREAMED IT, it may well have actually happened.

aeebee50

Depends on who you want to believe. The active word is likely.

outhouse

whether your right or wrong

dream's and visions were huge back then, they had no understanding of this reality and place significance on such we know.

Guest46854

According to the OP and your other posts . . . Naah.:Cheeky:

JoeWallack

JW:
As Buddy Ravell said in the classic Three O'clock High "I'm afraid I just can't do that sir."


Joseph

TedM

There have been several unsubstantiated claims about my ability to understand reason, yet no one attempts an actual argument and few try to address my arguments. freeratio has really gone downhill in the quality of the posters. aa leads the pack--just awful. The level of conspiracy thinking would be hilarious if it were so sad. Have fun, you all--although it doesn't seem like many here really are anymore..I miss the good old days..

aa5874

The "good old days" are over. Posters will no longer be allowed to PRESUME their own history without being challenged.

Please, Once Jesus was an actual human being and was crucified then he could NOT have resurrected AFTER he was Already dead.

Is not such a statement completely logical???

If Jesus did NOT actually exist he could NOT have resurrected.

Again, is NOT such statement completely logical???

The resurrection story is Absolute Fiction--this is completely logical and reasonable.