Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Tyro · 07-01-2009, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

D(is) M(anibus) / M() T() Drusi pateres(?) / Primicinio qui vixit / ann(os) XXXXII dies VII / Faustus Antoniae Drusi ius / emit Iucundi Chrestiani oll(a)

Is this where we started? Do we have a translation?

Isn't there one in the article cited above? I get it to:

M. T., father(s) of Drusus, dedicated the tomb to his(their) first born son, who lived for 42 years and 7 days. Drusus' Antonia's Faustus bought the right for the urn to be put in a certain burial place, from Jucundus Chrestianus.

Regarding Tacitus' sources, we have to speculate. Tacitus does not mention them, as you say, but he was probably no eye witness either. In order to judge whether or not Tacitus' account about the Chrestiani is true, we have to discuss the sources of his testimony. Not in this thread though =)

Roger Pearse · 07-02-2009, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyro

Regarding Tacitus' sources, we have to speculate.

Like Talleyrand, I fail to see the necessity. Once we depart from what the data contains, we are merely inventing stories.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Tyro · 07-02-2009, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

I can find precisely one usage in Latin inscriptions:

We also have the Herennius Chrestianus inscription.

Roger Pearse · 07-02-2009, 11:14 PM

Ah. Here's the Herennius one:

Quote:

Publication: CIL 06, 01056 (p 3071, 3777, 4320) = D 02156

Province: Rome

Imp(eratori) Caes(ari) M(arco) Aurelio / Antonino Aug(usto) Severi / Aug(usti) n(ostri) filio Parth(ico) max(imo) / trib(unicia) pot(estate) VIII co(n)s(uli) II / coh(ors) I vig(ilum) Antoni/niana / Cn(aeus) Rustius Rufinus praef(ectus) vig(ilum) / Ti(berius) Claudius Marcellinus / trib(unus) / C(aius) Iulius Ingenuus |(centurio) / C(aius) Valerius Victor |(centurio) / C(aius) Iulius Quintinus |(centurio) / C(aius) Mancilius Iuvenis |(centurio) / C(aius) Caecilius Severus |(centurio) / T(itus) Flavius Ingenuus |(centurio) / M(arcus) Aurelius Florianus |(centurio) / cum comman<ip=VC>ulis / suis // dedic(ata) Kal(endas) [3] / Imp(eratoribus) Antonino Aug(usto) II et [[Get[a]]] / co(n)s(ulibus) // |(centuria) Ingenui / Q(uinte) Valeri Optate / aq(uari) Iuli Iuliane / opt(io) Rutili Clemens / tes(serari) Cassi Primitive / b(eneficiari) t(ribuni) Laberi Celer / st(rator) Cameri Basse / o(ptio) c(arceris?) Alfadoni Saturnine / Iuli Saturnine / Mari Felix / tr(ibune) Valeri Experite / Valeri Crescentian(e) / Calpurni Felicissim(e) / Avidiari Eutyches / Sitti Victor / Cingi Felix / Acili Eutyches / Noni Tiburti / Antoni Cassiane / Ulpi Dionysi / Ampi Saluitane / Avidiari Valentine / Domiti Saturnin(e) / Valeri Iarine / Sei Advente / Sei Araspax / Antoni Emerite / Lusi Ampliate / S(exti) Aureli Care / Septimi Fauste / Caecili Adlecte / Cervi Firmine / Calpurni Sabinian(e) / Iuli Amande / Ploti Quintilian(e) / Terenti Rufine / Genici Iustiane / Aeli Philippe / Clodi Victor / Cesti Valens / Deci Vere / Petili Diogas / Antoni Fa(v)or / Iuni Saturnin(e) / Iuli Honorate / Septimi Pertica / Lumbresi Donate / Petroni Felix / Volosi Licinian(e) / Valeri Crispine / Sertori Graecine / Iuli Verissime / Sicini Prudens / vex(illari) Pacci Pacciane / Deciane Melisse / Licini Iuste / st(rator) Pollenti December / Rutili Ingenue / Ofili Ianuari / Helvi Donate / Salvi Silvester / Aviti Crescens / Corneli Basilsce / Stati Vere / Clodi Hospes / Acili Crescens / Vibi Clemens / Acuti Saturnine / Magni Prime / Orbi Rogate / Flavi Chresime / Licini Sura / Ceseni Martine / Aemili Flacce / Vetti Valens // Leuconi Restute / Iuli Sabine / Egnati Eutychiane / Brutti Prisce / Aeli Artemas / Iuli Lindae / Caecili Sedate / Valeri Victorine / Trabi Secunde / Magni Felix / Sergi Paulus / Domiti Victor / Aiedi Quintule / Gaulene Marcelline / Aureli Nysis / Egnati Crescens / Quinti Vere / Pompei Victorine / Maxime Getulice / Aureli Charito / Publici Verna / Aeli Biccha / Iuli Saturnine / Aeli Victor / Aureli Fortunate / Fani Felix / Zeugi Felix / Lusi Caste / Cassi Attice / Sittivovi Marcelle / Corneli Victore / Decci Deciane / Marcane Spectate / Sei Iuste / Anni Severe / Flavi Hilare / Munati Augustalis / Quisidi Pauline / Caecili Prisciniane / Pacuvi Dexter / Vetti Felix / Iuli Procule / Septimi Fructe / Terenti Redempte / Vulcei Valens / Liguvi Iuste // |(centuria) Victoris / b(eneficiari) s(tratoris) Messori Victor / op(tio) Valeri Victor / vex(illiari) Agidi Chreste / tes(serari) Tulli Honager / b(eneficiari) t(ribuni) Petili Marcelle / v(i)c(timari) Aureli Menofante / st(rator) Caecili Ianuari / Ulpi Victorine / b(eneficiari) t(ribuni) Castrici Agathope / Manili Barbate / Horati Horatiane / Aureli Martialis / Ulpi Maxim(a)e / b(eneficiari) p(raefecti) Blossi Felix / Calpurni Primigeni / Ulpi Theodote / Fronto Socrates / Caeli Viator / Septimi Ianuari / Visideni Pauline / Flavi Surtace / Camoni Primigeni / Iuli Liberalis / Gavini Primitive / Valeri Secunde / Flavi Gaiane / Octavi Severe / Caeli Felix / Saufei Theodore / Flavi Parthenopeu / Fufici Secundine / Egnati Iustiane // Agelli Reddite / Arisi Fa(v)or / Minthi Hippocrates / Iuli Maxime / Valeri Cupite / Curti Patiste / Senatroni Pauline / Hateri Felix / Vegeti Firme / Truttei Severe / Calpurni Achilleu(s) / Messi Alexander / Aemili Romane / Mari Victor / Titi Clemens / Memi Hermes / Corneli Sabine / Tamudi Dionysi / Aemili Prime / st(rator) Aureli Popili / Allaiedi Marcelline / Cesenni Severe / Licini Eutychiane / Titurni Rog<a=X>te/ Audeni Felix / Lolli Ianuari / Servili Sedate / Vari Atiliane / Vicri Sollemni / Venni Vere / Munati Firme / Caeli Pauline / Cavari Marcelline / Varati Sabine / Acili Pudens / Claudi Maxime / ex(eptor) pr(aefecti) Aureli Thefiane / Marci Restute / Musoni Soter / Carvili Asclepiades / Otacili Victorine / Cauli Macedo / Titini Pinnti / Caecili Maxime / Vetti Lascive / c(orniculari) tribuni Sexti Chrysogone / Treboni Tattiane / Aureli Sabine / Baebi Iuste / Herenni Chrestiane / Venni Fronto / Cordi Severine / Rufoni Victorine / c(orniculari) t(ribuni) Vari Mecuri / Marati Fauste / Herenni Lupe / Petelli Fortunate / Flavi Haster / Hortensi Rufine / Vibi Fortunate / Valeri Vitalissime / Claudi Alexander / Valeri Heraclida / Iuli Liberralis / Decimi Rufine / Quintili Procule / Baebi Successe / Pettroni Perennis / Volumni Hygine / Iuli Donate / Tutili Leo / Aemili Asclepiodote / Domiti Iuliane / {V}Volti Maxime / Iuli Saturnine / Atri Sabine / Titini Secunde / Manili Regule / Comini Capriole / Voconi Marcelline / Coccei Atiliane / Sueto Pauline / Veneli Vere / Farrax Iuste / Aureli Hermogenes / Aureli Viator / Iuli Saturnin(es) / Aufidi Genti / Licini Mercuri // |(centuria) Quintini / s(trator) pr(aefecti) Aproni Primitive / o(ptio) c(arceris) Mestri Aprilis / [i]m(aginifer) Popili Pergame / tess(erari) Vetti Lerti / opt(io) Ploti Postumine / vex(illari) Renni Felix / emer(ite) Caecili Fortunate / emer(ite) Curti Prudens / b(eneficiari) tr(ibuni) Munati Hermes / Gemini Fauste / vic(timari) Aureli Hermadio / em(erite) Acci Vitalis / Sergi Salviane / v(eterane) Lolli Pauline / Fontei Ianuari / Titi Primitive / Aemili Ifianax / Claudi Proculeiane / Claudi Dionysi / Iuli Andronice / Satri Verine / Eburi Verine / Haereni Vere / Socconi Candidiane / Valeri Saturnine / Iuli Crispine / Dessi Prime / Tulli Iuste / Iuli Quintiane / st(rator) Blossi Urbane / Setini Marcelle / Cuspidi Prisce / Cassi Fortunate / Arri Marcelline / Publici Eutyches / Sexti Eufron / s(trator?) Numici Fortunate / Volusi Fortunate / Caeoili Pompeiane / [s]t(rator) Semproni Lolliane / Corneli Prime / Iuli Secunde / Prosperti Firmiane / Flavi Felix / Terenti Corneliane / Carinati Crescens / Servili Salutaris / Spaeloni Restute / Aselli Facilis / Viri Verna / Papiri Maron / Carfami Restute / Auteli Posidoni / Minervi Severine / Rufri Rufine / Petili Pauline / Fabi Felix / Fontei Veneri / Flavi Prisce / Asini Abascannte / Antisti Modestiane / Didi Macrine / Petici Veneriane / Iuli Fauste / Flavi Urbice / Antoni Honorate / Aureli Dionysi / Savidi Maxime / Nanuvi Restitute / Valeri Coetonice / Rufri Sabiniane / Calpurni Borysthenes / Iuli Urbane / Avilli Philomuse / Aemili Hermes / Aureli Zotice / Hermogennes Diodore / Canini Megamixe / Antoni Aprilis / Macci Asmene / Claudi Tisinniane / Corneli Rufe / Primisi Chrysogone / Iuli Rogate / Domiti Sature / Pisenti Agricoola / Appi Sabiniane / Iuli Peregrine / Petroni Saturnine / Sicini Crescentiane / Semproni Afrodisi / Magudi Successe / Octavi Ianuari / Arrani Prime / Valeri Crescens // Atti Victor / Formi Asprenas / Flavi Machon / Septici Charito / Nymisi Secunde / Aburtidi Cogitate / Valeri Restute / Varreni Verine / Marci Severe / Pescenni Felix / Corneli Polliane / Corneli Callimorfe / Germani Filonice / Marci Iantari / Novasi Severe // |(centuria) Iuvenis / {P} b(eneficiari) [p]r(aefecti) Marcane Fortunatian(e) / co(dicillarie) Aemili Basse / vex(illiarie) Titi Saturnine / op(tio) Titi Secunde / im(aginifer) Corneli Felicissime / aq(uarie) Sitti Chryseros / em(erite) Gargili Barbare / b(eneficiari) s() Iuli Chariyime / tes(serarie) Blaesi Probate / Aemili Vitalis / Lutavi Philadelfie / Secunde Felix / Fani Herodiane / Marti Ceioni / Claudi Marce / s(trator) Arreni Marcelle / Novi Ephoebe / o(ptio) c(aeceris) Mari Timon / Vitrasi Artema / Aemili Optate / Decime Quintici / Aureli Liberalis / Aemili Oreu / Claudi Primitive / Sallusti Pristine / s(trator) t(ribuni) Aeli Quintio / Catti Servande / Octavi Maeciliane / Pumidi Felix / Luci Nico / Verei Seductor / Cessi Private / Flavi Hermmogenes / Auli Crispine / Mari Severe / Saufei Felix / Cretori November / Publici Macedo / Iuli Procule / Arcaeni Crispiniane / Corneli Hermes / Publlici Firmidiane / Bafri Clemens / Petroni Firme / Caecili Fortunate / s(trator) t(ribuni) Veheni Calliste / em(erite) Anni Victorine / Cessi Primitive / Antisti Marcelline / Aemili Marine / Papini Saturnine / Cossuti Feste / Gavini Fauste / Gelli Apolloni / Claudi Pllacentine / Eppi Veriane / Antisti Fortis / Cassi Pollio / Iuli Donate / Fulloni Leonas / Iuli Luciane / Gaeni Optime / Serveni Procule / Fulvi Valeri / Aemili Iuste / Mursi Saturnine / Aureli Iucunde / Alleti Quartine / Alleti Liberalis / Fl Iuvenete / Murti Crispe / Caecili Donatiane / Calpurni Ireneu(s) / Urseni Afrisilane / Octavi Clementiane / Cirri Feste / Iuventi December / Calpurni Celer / Stamini Saturnine / Aureli Alexandex / Alleti Prime / Messi Restute / Tetti Venerande / Aureli Autydore / Licini Felicissime / Titi Felix / Murri Valeriane / Aureli Victorine / c(orniculari) t(ribuni) Iuni Laurenti / Noni Iovine / Navi Titiane / Maevi Rogatiane / Aureli Severine / S() N() Satri Farensis / Comini Marrcelle / Aeli Hermogeniane / Lullei Felix / Aureli Varroniane / Obultroni Vitalis / Octavi Celer / Spuri Severe / Neroni Maximiane / Neroni Sabine / Vettoni Feliix / Verati Rufine / Caecili Victor / Aeli Hilare / Vitrasi Romane / Coccei Rogatiane / Vergili Felix / Materne Victorice / Liquide Quarte / Atafidi Severine / Septieni Prisce / Calpurni Fauste / Pompei Sallusti / Titini Hortensiane / Baberi Victor / Munati Iustine / Bucceri Tertulle / Aureli Romane / Ianuari Felix / Atili Heliodore / Lolli Sevverine / Verbici Vitalis / Extricate Felix / Bucceri Quarte / Valeri Secundine / Anchari Iustine / Vibulene Mercuri / Galeri Neptunalis / Velleni Fructe / Gemelle Felicissime

and here is another:

Quote:

Publication: CIL 10, 06638 = InscrIt-13-01, 00031 = InscrIt-13-02, 00026 = AE 2000, +00055
Province: Latium et Campania / Regio I Place: Anzio / Antium

]bus m[ // [Ti(berio) Caesare Aug(usto) co(n)s(ule)] / [3] II / [3]s II / [3]s Lycorei f(ilius?) / [3] II / [3] II / [3] II / [3] II / [3] II / [3] II / [3] II / [Camillo Arruntio Cn(aeo) Domit]io co(n)s(ulibus) / [ // ] topiar[ius] / [3] librari[us] / [3]s topiarius / [3] topiarius / [3 dis]pensator pro / [m]agistrat[u] / [p]osuit V[3] / [3]us [ // ]N / [3] in hunc / [annum allect]us ut esset II dec(urio) / [Cn(aeo) Acerro]nio C(aio) Pontio co(n)s(ulibus) / [3]II a supellectile / [3] atriensis / [3]cnius atriensis / [3]x atriensis / [pro mag(istro)] ex d(ecreto) d(ecurionum) allec(tus) HS |(mille) atri(ensis) / [3]aeus top(iarius) / [Hy]mnus pedis(se)q(uus) Delp(ianus) / [3]irtus l(ibertus) a by(bliothece) // M(arco) Aq(u)ila I[uliano] / P(ublio) Nonio Aspren[ate co(n)s(ulibus)] / Epaphroditus Chr[est(ianus)] / Eros glutina(tor) / Aphrodisius glutinat(or) / Dorus atr(iensis) / C(aio) Caesare Aug(usto) Germanico / L(ucio) Apronio Caesiano co(n)[s(ulibus)] / Anthus top(iarius) II / Tiro atr(i)e(n)s(is) / [3]s t[op(iarius)] / Onesimus medic(us) / Epaphroditus Chrest(ianus) II / Epaphroditus Tertian(us) / pro magi(stratu) ex d(ecreto) d(ecurionum) HS |(mille)DC / Speratus liber(tus) marg(aritarius) / [C(aio)] Caesare Aug(usto) Ge[rm(anico) co(n)s(ule)] / Delphus procu[rat(or) // ] / [Fe]lix [C]aesar(is) / mensor / [e]x d(ecreto) d(ecurionum) pro mag(istratu) HS |(mille)DC / [Ti(berius) Cl]audius Nessus II / [Ti(berius) Cla]udius Hermes / [3]a[3]hus atri[a]ri(us) / [3]igus Sextioninus / [ex] d(ecreto) d(ecurionum) pro mag(istratu) HS |(mille)DC / Primus subvil(icus) / Attalus Fulvian(us) tect(or) / [Ti(berio)] Claudio Caesare Aug(usto) / [C(aio)] Caecina Largo co(n)s(ulibus) / [3] polit(or) / Eucratus top(iarius) / [Stabi]lio atr(iensis) / [3]nthus top(iarius) / Salvius polit(or) / Ingen[[us to]]p(iarius) / Ti(berio) Claudio Caesare Aug(usto) co(n)s(ulibus) / L(ucio) Vitellio II / Zelus Aug(usti) lin[t(io)] / Claud(ius) Atimetus a byb(liothece) / Lysimachus aedit(uus) vern(a) Ant(iatinus) / Princeps tabella(rius) / Tantalus top(iarius) / T(ito) Statilio Tauro P(ublio) Po[mpon]io Secu(n)do co(n)s(ulibus) / Trypho atr(iensis) II / Philetus aeditu(u)s Fortunarum [II] / Chresimus a byb(liothece) I / Felix camp(sarius) / [A]gathopus tec(tor) I / Venustus spec(lariarius) I / Antipater Aug(usti) l(ibertus) ex d(ecreto) d(ecurionum) HS |(mille) // ] / Ti(berius) Iulius Grapti f(ilius) Nata[lis] / Ti(berius) Claudius Romanus / Bathyllus ver(na) Capr(ensis) a bybl(iothece) / Primus Hilarian(us) a supell(ectile) / Argaeus <u=Y>ber(nator) Censorin(ianus) / Secundus tec(tor) Euporian(us) / Zora atr(iensis) / Sepunius Clarus ex d(ecreto) d(ecurionum) HS |(mille)|(mille) / Q(uinto) Veranio / A(ulo) Pompeio Gallo co(n)s(ulibus) / Helius atr(iensis) / Herm[es l]apid(arius) / Ti(berius) [Claud(ius) C]hrysao(n) / Phil[ippus] pavimen(tarius) / Saturninus sphaer(ista) / Gora atr(i)en(sis) / C(aius!) Antistius(!) Vetus(!) / M(arco) Suillio Nerullino co(n)s(ulibus) / Myro Aug(usti) l(ibertus) pictor / Felix Aug(usti) l(ibertus) Tuscul(anus) / Anteros tegul(arius) / Euphemus [P]allan(tianus) dispen(sator) / Ianuarius pi[c]tor / Apollonius atr(iensis) / Ti(berio) Claudio Augusto V / Ser(vio) Cornelio Orphito co(n)s(ulibus) / Nymphius Delpian(us) subvil(icus) / Aga[t]hopus On[esi]m(ianus) medic(us) / [3]us top(iarius) / [3]ius Alia(nus?) a Corin(this) / [Venustus s]peclar(iarius) II / [3] divae Augustae l(ibertus) med(icus) / [3]us Favon(ianus) ther(marius) // F] K(alendae) Iul(iae) n(efastus) Felicit(ati) in Cap[it]o(lio) / [G] VI n(efastus) / [H] V n(efastus) / [A] IV n(efas) p(iaculum) [Ara P]acis August(ae) / [c]ostitut(a) / [B] III P[op(lifugia)] / [C] pr(idie) n(efastus) ludi Apollini / comm(ittuntur) HS CCCXXC(milibus) / [D] Non(ae) n(efastus) ludi / [E] VIII n(efastus) ludi / [F] VII n(efastus) ludi / [G] VI c(omitialis) ludi / [H] V c(omitialis) ludi / [A] IIII n(efas) p(iaculum) ludi divi Iul(i) / natalis / [B] III c(omitialis) in Circo / [C] pr(idie) c(omitialis) / [D] Eid(us) n(efas) p(iaculum) mercatus dies V / [E] XVII f(astus) / [F] XVI c(omitialis) / [G X]V c(omitialis) dies Allia[e et] Fab(iorum) // E K(alendae) Aug(ustae) n(efas) p(iaculum) Ti(beri) Clau[di Caes(aris) Aug(usti) nat(alis)] / Spei Aug(ustus) Alexan(driam) / recepit / F IIII n(efas) p(iaculum) divus Iul(ius) Hisp(ania) vic(it) / G III c(omitialis) Ti(berius) Aug(ustus) I<l=N>lyrico vic(it) / H pr(idie) c(omitialis) / A Non(ae) n(efas) p(iaculum) Saluti in colle / B VIII n(efas) p(iaculum) / C VII c(omitialis) / D VI c(omitialis) / E V n(efas) p(iaculum) divus Iul(ius) Phars(ali) / vicit / F IV n(efas) p(iaculum) feriae Cereri / et Opi Aug(ustae) / G III c(omitialis) / H pr(idie) c(omitialis) / A Eid(us) n(efas) p(iaculum) Dianae in Aventino / B XIX f(astus) August(us) triump(havit) / C XIIX c(omitialis) / D XVII c(omitialis) / E XVI Portunalia n(efas) p(iaculum) fer(iae) Portun(o) / F XV c(omitialis) aedis divi Iul(i) ded(icata) / G XIV Vin(alia) f(astus) Augustus excess(it) / H XIII c(omitialis) infer(iae) L(uci) Caesaris // D [K(alendae) Sep(tembres)] f(astus) feriae Iovi / E IV n(efastus) [Aug(ustus) ad Ac]ti[um vic(it)] / F III n(efas) p(iaculum) / G pr(idie) c(omitialis) [ludi Roman(i)] comm(ittuntur) / HS DCCLX(milibus) / H Non(ae) f(astus) ludi / A VIII f(astus) [l]udi / B VII c(omitialis) [ludi] / C VI c(omitialis) lu[di] / D V c(omitialis) lu[di] / E IIII c(omitialis) lu[di] / F III c(omitialis) lud[i] / G pr(idie) c(omitialis) lud[i] / H Id(us) n(efas) p(iaculum) epuli i[ndictio] / A XIIX f(astus) infer(iae) Dr[usi Caesaris] / equor(um) [prob(atio)] / B XVII c(omitialis) in circ[o] / C XVI c(omitialis) in cir[co] / D XV n(efas) p(iaculum) in circ[o Aug(usto) hon(ores)] / cael(estes) d[ecreti] // [B K(alendae) Oct(obres) n(efastus)] / [C VI f(astus)] / [D V c(omitialis) ludi August(ales) comm(ittuntur)] / HS X(milibus) / [E IIII c(omitialis) ludi] / F [III c(omitialis)] ludi / G pr(idie) n(efastus) ludi / H Non(ae) f(astus) ludi / A VIII c(omitialis) ludi / [B] VII c(omitialis) ludi Aug(ustus) aed(em) Apol(linis) / dedicavit / [C VI c(omitialis)] infer(iae) Germanic(i) / [D V Med(itrinalia) n(efas) p(iaculum)] / [E IIII] Aug(ustalia) n(efas) p(iaculum) [i]n circo / [G pr(idie)] f(astus) / [H Eid(us)] n(efas) p(iaculum) / [A XVII] f(astus) vernar(um) dies fest[us] / [B XV]I c(omitialis) / [C X]V c(omitialis) / [D XIIII] ar(milustrium) n(efas) p(iaculum) divus Aug(ustus) tog(am) / [v]irilem sum(psit) / A K(alendae) Nov(embres) f(astus) in circo / B IIII f(astus) / C III c(omitialis) / D pr(idie) c(omitialis) lud(i) pleb(ei) com(mittuntur) HS DC(milibus) / E Non(ae) f(astus) ludi / F VIII f(astus) ludi Agripp(inae) Iul(iae) nat(alis) / G VII [c(omitialis)] ludi / H V[I] c(omitialis) ludi / A V c(omitialis) ludi / B IIII c(omitialis) ludi / C III c(omitialis) ludi / D pr(idie) c(omitialis) ludi / E Id(us) n(efas) p(iaculum) epulum indicitur / F XIIX f(astus) equor(um) prob(atio) / G XVII c(omitialis) in circ(o) / H XVI c(omitialis) in circ(o) Ti(beri) Aug(usti) natal(is) / A XV c(omitialis) in circ(o) Sol in Sagitt(ario) / B XIV c(omitialis) mercatus / G K(alendae) Dec(embres) n(efastus) / H IV n(efastus) / A III n(efastus) / B pr(idie) f(astus) / C Non(ae) f(astus) / D VIII f(astus) / E VII c(omitialis) / F VI c(omitialis) / G V c(omitialis) / H IV c(omitialis) / A III ag(onalia) n(efas) p(iaculum) / B pr(idie) [f(astus)] / C Id(us) n(efas) p(iaculum) Tel[luri et Cereri] / D XIX f(astus) / E XIIX con[s(ualia) n(efas) p(iaculum)] / F XVII [c(omitialis)]

spamandham · 07-03-2009, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyro

Would a Roman watchman of the first cohors virgilium really have been called Chrestian, if Chrestian was the pagan name for Christian, a hated secterist?

I think you may be committing an anachronism. Just because Christianity came to be hated by some in the 2nd century, does not imply it was hated by all in the first century. I see no conflict whatsoever in the idea that a 1st century Roman watchman was a Christian.

aa5874 · 07-03-2009, 08:26 AM

Based on the hundreds of inscription provided by Roger, it would appear that either no-one was named Christianne or Christus among Romans or that the these names were not very popular at that time.

After checking both list with over 700 inscriptions, these are the only names with "Chrest" or "Chrys", there are none with "christ".

1.Flavi Chresime
2. vex(illiari) Agidi Chreste
3. Herenni Chrestiane
4.Epaphroditus Chr[est(ianus)]
5.Epaphroditus Chrest(ianus) II
6.c(orniculari) tribuni Sexti Chrysogone
7. Primisi Chrysogone
8. aq(uarie) Sitti Chryseros

Huon · 07-03-2009, 09:32 AM

6.c(orniculari) tribuni Sexti Chrysogone
7. Primisi Chrysogone
8. aq(uarie) Sitti Chryseros

Chrysos = gold gonos = born Chrysogonos = born from gold

Chryseros is also derived from chrysos, gold

... and Roger Pearse did not bold their names.

Tyro · 07-03-2009, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spamandham

I think you may be committing an anachronism. Just because Christianity came to be hated by some in the 2nd century, does not imply it was hated by all in the first century. I see no conflict whatsoever in the idea that a 1st century Roman watchman was a Christian.

The inscription is dated to 205 CE.

Roger Pearse · 07-03-2009, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huon

6.c(orniculari) tribuni Sexti Chrysogone
7. Primisi Chrysogone
8. aq(uarie) Sitti Chryseros

Chrysos = gold gonos = born Chrysogonos = born from gold

Chryseros is also derived from chrysos, gold

... and Roger Pearse did not bold their names.

I'm probably missing something. I didn't look for anyone with names like Chryso*; only for "Chrestianus", and so highlighted thos.

Tyro · 07-03-2009, 11:35 AM

What does the () in Chrest(ianus) mean? Could this have been another name, like Chrestus?

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07-03-2009, 08:26 AM	#136
aa5874 Contributor Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: the fringe of the caribbean Posts: 18,988	Based on the hundreds of inscription provided by Roger, it would appear that either no-one was named Christianne or Christus among Romans or that the these names were not very popular at that time. After checking both list with over 700 inscriptions, these are the only names with "Chrest" or "Chrys", there are none with "christ". 1.Flavi Chresime 2. vex(illiari) Agidi Chreste 3. Herenni Chrestiane 4.Epaphroditus Chr[est(ianus)] 5.Epaphroditus Chrest(ianus) II 6.c(orniculari) tribuni Sexti Chrysogone 7. Primisi Chrysogone 8. aq(uarie) Sitti Chryseros

07-03-2009, 09:32 AM	#137
Huon Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bordeaux France Posts: 2,796	6.c(orniculari) tribuni Sexti Chrysogone 7. Primisi Chrysogone 8. aq(uarie) Sitti Chryseros Chrysos = gold gonos = born Chrysogonos = born from gold Chryseros is also derived from chrysos, gold ... and Roger Pearse did not bold their names.

07-03-2009, 11:35 AM	#140
Tyro Junior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: US Posts: 90	What does the () in Chrest(ianus) mean? Could this have been another name, like Chrestus?

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