douglas

Novice question here... I'm interested in learning more about what certain every-day items used in the bible meant to the original, intended readers of the bible. For example, what did bread mean to them? Wine? Olive trees? Clothing? etc. and why did the writers of the bible use these in the stories they told?

In my opinion, my Christian upbringing has twisted the meaning of these objects (bread=flesh, wine=blood, etc.) and I'm eager to learn what they may have meant to the Bible's intended audience.

In 2000 years, people may read our stories about cars and not understand that they were more than just hunks of metal designed to transport people, but also represented personal freedom, financial status, among other things.

Can someone point me to a book, or web resource that I can go to learn more?

EarlOfLade

bread == food
wine == drink
Olive trees = source for cooking oil, lamp oil, and olives for my martini
Clothes = I don't want to show off my pecker to everyone.

What else did you have in mind?


Welcome to iidb, btw! :wave:

douglas

Thank you! It's nice to be here. I've learned a ton by reading the posts on this forum. There's so much more to learn and there's many years of brainwashing to clear away. I'm taking it one step at a time.

So if bread=food, then when Jesus supposedly broke it to share with his disciples he was saying "If you have food and someone else doesn't, share it with them so they don't go hungry." Where did the crap about the bread being his flesh to remind of his sacrifice for our sins come from?

Bread was hard to make back then, right? It took effort to plant it, water it, cultivate it, prepare it, bake it? Pre-Jesus time, If I had bread and you didn't it was "No money to buy it? Tough luck, buddy! God must want you to starve to death!"

The supposed feeding of the multitudes "miracle" takes on a different meaning for me. When Jesus saw that they didn't have enough to feed everyone he might have said "Hey, whoever brought food, do me a favor. Throw it in a basket and share it with your neighbors. Would you do that for me? Thanks!" Was this a revolutionary concept during his time - feeding a stranger with your last loaf of bread - or was this kind of charity commonplace? Is there some kind of anthropological research study that has been done that would help me better understand their lifestyle?

Again, sorry for the novice questions. My first task is to learn how to ask good questions, and I'm not sure I'm doing a very good job.

Toto

An interesting question, but very broad, depending on who the original intended readers were - were they Jews (if so, why were the gospels and Paul's letters written in Greek?) diaspora Jews? pagans?

IF you think that the gospels represent a mythic-allegoric-symbolic writing, your imagination is the limit as to what the meant. Bread was the basic nourishment, and the surrounding pagans worshipped a goddess of grain, whose daughter descended into Hell for part of the year. Bread and eating might also be symbolic of taking in knowledge. Wine was the basic drink (water was unsanitary) and the surrounding pagans worshipped a god of the vine, Bacchus, whose priests turned water into wine. Olive oil was used to annoint kings.

If you think that the gospels were meant to relate something that actually happened, wine is just wine, bread is just bread, etc. But that's no fun.

Toto

The idea that the feeding of the multitudes was actually Jesus inspiring people to share what they had is common among liberal post-Christians, but I don't think it would have appealed to the original readers.

The ancient near east was an agricultural region. In good times, there was enough food for everyone. If there wasn't enough rain, there might not be enough food; Egypt was spared this, because it relied on the Nile overflowing its banks and providing enough water. The NT and Josephus report that there were famines, and organized efforts were made to bring food to areas that lacked food.

The idea of people starving because they didn't have enough money is a phenomenon of modern times.

Anat

douglas, Torah law commands giving charity, for example Deuteronomy 15:7 "If there be among you a needy man, one of thy brethren, within any of thy gates, in thy land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thy heart, nor shut thy hand from thy needy brother;"

There are specific commandments about leaving some of the crop for the poor - the margins of the field/orchard, the gleanings, the forgotten sheaves/fruit (Leviticus 19:9-10, Deuteronomy 24:19-20). That these commandments serve as the background of the story of Ruth should mean people were familiar with the practice (at least as an ideal), but I do not know how well people actually adhered to it.

In Mishnaic times there are many sayings in praise of giving charity, which together with study of the law and worship were considered the foundations of society.

OTOH Hillel was noted for establishing the 'pruzbul' - a document that allowed a lender to demand repayment of a loan despite the 7th year debt abolishment. This was necessary because people were refraining from lending to the poor despite the admonition in Deuteronomy 15:9-10
"Beware that there be not a base thought in thy heart, saying: 'The seventh year, the year of release, is at hand'; and thine eye be evil against thy needy brother, and thou give him nought; and he cry unto the LORD against thee, and it be sin in thee. Thou shalt surely give him, and thy heart shall not be grieved when thou givest unto him; because that for this thing the LORD thy God will bless thee in all thy work, and in all that thou puttest thy hand unto."

So I don't think there was anything new in the concept of charity, but getting people to practice it may have been a different story.

Anat

Toto, people who had no land and no trade were poor - the widows and orphans, people who had fallen into debt. There are stories of sages who had risen from poverty - so I do think the social phenomenon existed.

dzim77

Douglas, it seems you are referring to the Christian institution of communion.

In Christian tradition, this idea comes from the 'Lord's Supper', on the night Jesus was betrayed. Jesus tells his disciples,

In normal circumstances, to a Jew at the time, bread would probably represent food, or perhaps 'manna' (bread from heaven) in some specific cases in which the context warranted it.

Perhaps Anat will correct me on this?

Jesus apparently plays on this meaning of 'bread' in John 6

Anat

I agree that bread was 'food', or even 'staple food'. Wheat and barley were the primary crops, their harvest was celebrated (Passover and Shavuot). Often the Hebrew Bible uses 'bread' where one could use 'food'.

Curiosly the Hebrew 'lehem' means 'bread' while the Arabic 'lahm' means 'meat'. I wonder what this root means in other Semitic languages, and if it has anything to do with bread becoming flesh.

douglas

Dzim77, Thank you. Having taken it many times myself, I'm fairly comfortable with the Christian explanation and reasoning behind communion, but you've help remind me of the connection between nourishment of the body vs. nourishment for the soul.

My concern was if the writers/editors of the NT Gospels had twisted his words to mean something that he didn't intend. (Note: I'm not convinced that there was such a person as Jesus. Like I said... one step at a time.)

What I learned from Toto and Anat was that Charity was not a foreign concept to the people of Jesus's time, and the region was agriculturally rich (I'll blame Hollywood & sunday school for my misconceptions on these.).

What about wine? Was this a common peasant drink of the time, or only available to the wealthy? What was it's significance to the Jews of Jesus' day?