aychamo

Hello there, I saw this in the speaking in tongues thread:


What is meant by that? I mean, may you explain further?

Pantera

It's generally agreed by scholars that the Pentateuch (the first five books of the Bible) actually consists of four seperate works by at least four authors, which have at some point been merged into one document. So, for example, there are two seperate versiond of the creation myth in Genesis Chapter 1 and 2 - one where God creates the world in six days by commanding it, and a second in which he creates man by moulding him from dust, then creates the animals (note that in the second version the order in which things were created is different - and that woman was created some time after man, rather than at the same time).

For an excellent introduction to the field see Friedman's Who Wrote the Bible, or do a Google search on "documentary hypothesis".

Jayjay

I think what he meant was that the biblical creation myth, as well as the flood myth, are actually combined from at least two separate older myths. Genesis chapters 1 and 2 are a good example. I'm not so sure how this is obvious in the case of Noachian flood though, so perhaps Mageth will provide a more elaborate explanation.

spin

As has been noted there are two creation accounts, yet Mageth is indeed correct that there are two flood accounts as well. The difference between the two pairs is that the two creation accounts are quite different one from the other, whereas the flood accounts share a lot of common information, so much so that the editor has threaded the two accounts together. You find two explanations of the naughtiness of mankind and how Noah found favour, two statements of how the animals where to be put in with the slight difference that one version makes a special provision for (sacrificially) clean animals. If you spend the time, you can unthread them, or find them on the web -- perhaps try Google with "noah flood two accounts yahwist".


spin

capnkirk

To give you a clear understanding of just what Mageth and Spin are talking about...without taking the time to give you the whole alphabet soup exegesis of scholarly research, I have taken the Flood Story (Genesis 6:5 through 8:22 RSV) and identified each separate story by use of the following convention: The "J" source story is in black. The "P" source story is in red. First, read only the black type. You will find that it is a complete story. Then go back and read only the red type and you will find that it too is a complete story! Further, you will find that the conflicts (like the specifics of the selection of the animals) that are apparent when you read the "integrated" version are due to the combining of two similar, but not identical stories.

Genesis 6
5: And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6: And the LORD was sorry that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart.
7: So the LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the ground, man and beast and creeping things and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them."
8: But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.
9: These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation; Noah walked with God.
10: And Noah had three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
11: Now the earth was corrupt in God's sight, and the earth was filled with violence.
12: And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way upon the earth.
13: And God said to Noah, "I have determined to make an end of all flesh; for the earth is filled with violence through them; behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
14: Make yourself an ark of gopher wood; make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and out with pitch.
15: This is how you are to make it: the length of the ark three hundred cubits, its breadth fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits.
16: Make a roof for the ark, and finish it to a cubit above; and set the door of the ark in its side; make it with lower, second, and third decks.
17: For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall die.
18: But I will establish my covenant with you; and you shall come into the ark, you, your sons, your wife, and your sons' wives with you.
19: And of every living thing of all flesh, you shall bring two of every sort into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female.
20: Of the birds according to their kinds, and of the animals according to their kinds, of every creeping thing of the ground according to its kind, two of every sort shall come in to you, to keep them alive.
21: Also take with you every sort of food that is eaten, and store it up; and it shall serve as food for you and for them."
22: Noah did this; he did all that God commanded him.

Genesis 7
1: Then the LORD said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and all your household, for I have seen that you are righteous before me in this generation.
2: Take with you seven pairs of all clean animals, the male and his mate; and a pair of the animals that are not clean, the male and his mate;
3: and seven pairs of the birds of the air also, male and female, to keep their kind alive upon the face of all the earth.
4: For in seven days I will send rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living thing that I have made I will blot out from the face of the ground."
5: And Noah did all that the LORD had commanded him.
6: Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters came upon the earth.
7: And Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons' wives with him went into the ark, to escape the waters of the flood.
8: Of clean animals, and of animals that are not clean, and of birds, and of everything that creeps on the ground,
9: two and two, male and female, went into the ark with Noah, as God had commanded Noah.
10: And after seven days the waters of the flood came upon the earth.
11: In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.
12: And rain fell upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
13: On the very same day Noah and his sons, Shem and Ham and Japheth, and Noah's wife and the three wives of his sons with them entered the ark,
14: they and every beast according to its kind, and all the cattle according to their kinds, and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth according to its kind, and every bird according to its kind, every bird of every sort.
15: They went into the ark with Noah, two and two of all flesh in which there was the breath of life.
16: And they that entered, male and female of all flesh, went in as God had commanded him; and the LORD shut him in.
17: The flood continued forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bore up the ark, and it rose high above the earth.
18: The waters prevailed and increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark floated on the face of the waters.
19: And the waters prevailed so mightily upon the earth that all the high mountains under the whole heaven were covered;
20: the waters prevailed above the mountains, covering them fifteen cubits deep.
21: And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, birds, cattle, beasts, all swarming creatures that swarm upon the earth, and every man;
22: everything on the dry land in whose nostrils was the breath of life died.
23: He blotted out every living thing that was upon the face of the ground, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the air; they were blotted out from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those that were with him in the ark.
24: And the waters prevailed upon the earth a hundred and fifty days.

Genesis 8
1: But God remembered Noah and all the beasts and all the cattle that were with him in the ark. And God made a wind blow over the earth, and the waters subsided;
2: the fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained,
3: and the waters receded from the earth continually. At the end of a hundred and fifty days the waters had abated;
4: and in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, the ark came to rest upon the mountains of Ar'arat.
5: And the waters continued to abate until the tenth month; in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, the tops of the mountains were seen.
6: At the end of forty days Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made,
7: and sent forth a raven; and it went to and fro until the waters were dried up from the earth.
8: Then he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters had subsided from the face of the ground;
9: but the dove found no place to set her foot, and she returned to him to the ark, for the waters were still on the face of the whole earth. So he put forth his hand and took her and brought her into the ark with him.
10: He waited another seven days, and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark;
11: and the dove came back to him in the evening, and lo, in her mouth a freshly plucked olive leaf; so Noah knew that the waters had subsided from the earth.
12: Then he waited another seven days, and sent forth the dove; and she did not return to him any more.
13: In the six hundred and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried from off the earth; and Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and behold, the face of the ground was dry.
14: In the second month, on the twenty-seventh day of the month, the earth was dry.
15: Then God said to Noah,
16: "Go forth from the ark, you and your wife, and your sons and your sons' wives with you.
17: Bring forth with you every living thing that is with you of all flesh -- birds and animals and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth -- that they may breed abundantly on the earth, and be fruitful and multiply upon the earth."
18: So Noah went forth, and his sons and his wife and his sons' wives with him.
19: And every beast, every creeping thing, and every bird, everything that moves upon the earth, went forth by families out of the ark.
20: Then Noah built an altar to the LORD, and took of every clean animal and of every clean bird, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
21: And when the LORD smelled the pleasing odor, the LORD said in his heart, "I will never again curse the ground because of man, for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I ever again destroy every living creature as I have done.
22: While the earth remains, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night, shall not cease."

If this has whetted your interest and you want to know more, may I suggest Who Wrote the Bible? by Richard E. Friedman.

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