neilgodfrey

Cults today virtually "command" member estrangement from families while similtaneously teaching the 5th commandment. There is no necessary either-or.


Neil

Joan of Bark

Okay, okay, let me re-phrase the question for all the MJ'ers here: Assuming for the moment that Jesus existed, does the Bible represent Him as being estranged from his family?

Amaleq13

The admonition does not appear that difficult to follow. Does it create a tangent more about whether Jesus existed than about the OP? No. Avoid creating such a tangent and you are doing just fine.

bacht

Well, there was James "brother of the Lord" mentioned in the epistles, supposedly a leader of the Jersualem group. Thomas "the twin" could have been another blood brother (besides Joseph, Simon and Judas as per Matthew). Mother Mary appears at the crucifixion scene, and witnessed the replacement of Judas Iscariot of the Twelve. At the text level there was a reconciliation of Jesus' family.

Joan of Bark

I agree that that's a possibility, Bacht. If so, it makes for a more interesting Jesus. Instead of an rigid, always correct Messiah, we have the image of a being who goes through the same kind of changes we all do. Did Jesus see an error in his ways? Does He sometimes sin? These are questions I rarely hear raised in mainstream Christian debates.

Doug Shaver

It represents him as not being close to his family, but I think estrangement is too strong a word with which to characterize the relationship. It implies more hostility than i think is evident in the narratives.

bacht

I think the orthodox story is a sinless Jesus (?) with others such as his family misunderstanding him until after the resurrection. The Atonement doctrine, echoing the OT scapegoating ritual, implies a sacrifice without blemish or imperfection, I think the epistle to the Hebrews talks this way.

If you want an alternative JC just skim some of the non-canonical stuff like the Infancy gospels

I don't accept an historical prophet anyway, the mythicist origin makes more sense to me

Joan of Bark

I disagree. I think the anti-family passages I quoted in the OP indicate a very strong hostility, at least until a possible reconciliation just before his crucifixion. Check out Matthew 10:34-37 again.

Doug Shaver

OK.

Vivisector

Personally, I think the passages you quoted are much more an indication of the situation in the authors' lives and communities than a reflection of Jesus's relationship with his family. In fact, I question whether anything at all in the Gospels can be reliably inferred regarding Jesus's family relationships.

If one assumes that (a) early Christianity was deeply divisive, (b) there was an initial element of urgency in the message and (c) some (maybe only one) competing groups claimed blood relationship to Jesus, then it seems that would explain much about why the "anti-family" passages were written.

Cheers,

V.