Peter Kirby

It's an unweildy 13-page thread without room for either comfortable growth or reasonable reference. There's been no post in it for some months.

My suggestion: Make a monthly "FAQ" document, make it a sticky, let us argue about it, unsticky it at the end of the month, resubmit a new version and sticky it.

We can start off the FAQ by summarizing the questions and answers revealed in the thread.

I volunteer to be a co-maintainer, if this proposal is accepted by the mods.

kind regards,
Peter Kirby

Peter Kirby

Here is a first draft (or, rather, skeleton).

IIDB BC&H FAQ Version 0.1 [December 8, 2006]

0. About this FAQ
1. Jewish Scripture & History
2. Christian Scripture & History
3. Islamic Scripture & History

0. About this FAQ

This FAQ is the distilled wisdom of IIDB regulars concerning Biblical Criticism & History. It is rewritten monthly and posted as a sticky in the BC&H forum of IIDB, at this URL:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/forumdisplay.php?f=60

Maintainers: Peter Kirby <peterkirby@gmail.com>

All maintainers agree to dual license their work as GFDL and CC-by-sa.

1. Jewish Scripture & History

2. Christian Scripture & History

3. Islamic Scripture & History

Peter Kirby

Should I continue working on this? So far I've copied in the "Index of Subjects" from 2003 and started making some categories based on them.

Also, do I have a co-maintainer? :devil1:

IIDB BC&H FAQ Version 0.2 [December 9, 2006]

0. About this FAQ

This FAQ is the distilled wisdom of IIDB regulars concerning Biblical Criticism & History. It is rewritten monthly and posted as a sticky in the BC&H forum of IIDB, at this URL:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/forumdisplay.php?f=60

Maintainers: Peter Kirby <peterkirby@gmail.com>

Copyright © 2006. All maintainers agree to dual license their work as GFDL and CC-by-sa.

1. The Bible in General and Errancy

1.1 Prophecy

Threads: Magus55: take the Prophecy Challenge!, Is Isaiah 7:14 a messianic prophecy?, Messianic Prophesies, Are there any messianic prophecies in the OT?, Another thread about christ in the old testament, Some Alleged Messianic Prophecies, Is Jesus the messiah of the OT?, Has any prophecies come true?

1.2 Eschatology

Threads: Layman's Dubious Interpretation of Hebrews 9:26

2. History in General and Religion

2.1 Metahistory

Threads: Benefit of the Doubt, Realism and Biblical History

2.2 Minimalist debates

Threads: Biblical "Minimalism" vs "Maximalism", When did the Hebrews emerge as a separate people?, Minimalist recommendations and a few others

3. Jewish Scripture

3.1 Books of Jewish Scripture

3.1.1 Genesis

3.1.2 Proverbs

Threads: The Value of Proverbs

3.1.3 Daniel

Threads: Daniel: Multiple authorship of Daniel

4. Christian Scripture

4.1 Books of Christian Scripture

4.1.1 Matthew

4.1.2 Mark

4.1.2.1 Ending of Mark?

Threads: Mark's Ending, Does the original Mark end with 16:8, How did the Gospel of Mark end?

4.1.3 Luke

4.1.4 John

Threads: Johannine Sectarians

4.1.5 Acts

Threads: Are the "We-Passage" in Acts Literary Conventions for Describing Sea-Voyages?, Vernon K Robbins replies to Layman on We Passages in Acts, Confirmation and Correlation in Acts and the Pauline Epistles, Did the author of Acts have access to Paul's letters?, References on Acts Requested, First Person Perspective in Ancient Sea Travel

4.1.6 Galatians

Threads: Authenticity of Gal 1:19

4.1.7 Hebrews

Threads: Doherty's translation of Heb 8:4

4.1.8 Revelation

Threads: 666: What is supposed to really mean?, Explain Revelation, Mystery of 666

4.1.9 Secret Mark

Threads: "Secret Mark", We know Smith wrote Secret Mark! Er, I think, update about the Secret Mark, Secret Mark is authentic: the evidence, Secret Mark is authentic: the evidence (Parts 3-4)

4.1.10 Gospel of Thomas

Threads: The Alleged Late Dating of GThomas

4.1.11 Theophilus of Antioch

Threads: Had Theophilus heard of Jesus?

4.2 Issues with the Gospels

4.2.1 Dating the Gospels

Threads: Dating Matthew and Mark, Round tomb blocking stone as evidence for a late dating of Mark?, When were the gospels written, Gospel Author evidence, Did Jesus Really Exist?, Dating the Gospel of Thomas, Date and authorship of the Gospels, Jesus in the Talmud?, Were the Gospels written within the so called 'Eye Witness Period'?

4.2.2 Synoptic Problem

Threads: Unfamiliar or unusal words in Mark?

4.2.3 Infancy Narratives

Threads: Census thing again!, King Herod, The credibility of Matthew

4.2.4 Instability of Texts

Threads: Textual Evolution, Helmut Koester and What Josh Mcdowell Forgot to Tell us..., The Corrupted Text of Canonical Mark

4.3 Canon of Scripture

Threads: How did the Nicene Council influence the Bible?

5. Christian Origins

5.1 Historicity of Jesus

5.1.1 Arguments against HJ

Threads: Today's Leaders, The Strange Silence of Samuel Rutherford, There ARE Echoes of Jesus in Earlier Myths, 7th Century crucifixion iconography - Why so late?, The origins of the Passion Narrative, The Passion Narrative and Philo, Philo, There was no historical Jesus, What's the best argument against historical Jesus?, Support for Doherty Please

5.1.2 Arguments for HJ

Threads: Doherty's Dubious Analysis of Hebrews 13:11-13, Doherty's Dubious Interpretation of Hebrews 9:27-28, How Do We Know When Jesus Lived?, Is Gmark the product of the fictionalization of a heavenly Christ myth?, What is the conclusive, historical evidence for the existence of Jesus?, A Good Indication That Jesus Existed, Crossan's First Stratum, They don't make dying/rising savior gods like they used to!, Evidence for Jesus existence is solid, Jesus Variants

5.1.3 Methodology and the Historicity of Jesus

Threads: New XTALK article blasts Meier on Multiple Attestation

5.1.4 Books about the Historicity of Jesus

Threads: Book Review: The Jesus Myth (Wells) and Deconstructing Jesus (Price), Crossan's The Historical Jesus: A Review, The Jesus the Jews Never Knew: Book Review By Earl Doherty of Zindler's New Book

5.1.5 Polls about the Historicity of Jesus

Threads: Are you a HJer, JMer, or agnostic on the issue?, Was there a Historical Jesus? The IIDB Poll, Which Major Religious Figures do You Think Existed

5.2 Non-Christian Sources

5.2.1 Josephus on Jesus?

Threads: Kirby on the Testimonium Flavianum (1), Kirby on the Testimonium Flavanium (2), Kirby on the Testimonium Flavianum (3), Kirby on the Testimonium (4), Ant. 20.9.1 (for Bede), Open Discussion on Arguments for TF, The Christ Passage in Josephus

5.3 Entheogenic Theory

Threads: Jesus Used Cannabis

5.4 Resurrection

Threads: resurrection debates, Proof Of The Resurrection?, Easter Account Contradictions, The truth about the empty tomb, Wright anyone?, The Historicity of the Empty Tomb Evaluated, Paul's Belief in a Bodily Resurrection

5.5 Apostles

Threads: Evidence for the historical apostles?, Apostolic Martyrdom

5.6 James Brother of Jesus Ossuary

Threads: First Century Archeological Evidence for the Existence of Jesus?, First Century Relic Laughed at by Christians, Inscription To Be Publically Displayed and Tested Again, The First Century Jesus Inscription (a compliation of relevant information), a crack through Jesus, Ossuary was genuine, inscription was faked, Experts Question Authenticity of Bone Box for `Brother of Jesus', Aerospace engineer's examination of the ossuary, Israeli Geological Service's statement on the ossuary, Updates on the ossuary, Fitzmyer's position regarding authenticity of the ossuary, Ossuary, ossuary, who's got the ossuary?, Oded Golan (ossuary owner), Response to Robert Turkel on the authenticity of the ossuary, Response to Turkel on the ossuary, part 2, More ossuary nonsense, Discovery Channel on the Ossuary of James, Make your own ancient artifact! a How-to Guide, New in BAR, XTALK just posted: Ossuary reportedly determined fake..., Jehoash Tablet reportedly judged a forgery, Israeli Antiquities Authority says ''James Ossuary'' inscription a fake, The Ossuary and The Committee, Altman's Latest Devastation of the Ossuary, Shanks: "I'm still not convinced", BAR article, Jul/Aug 2003: New tests bolster case for authenticity of ossuary, Please help save our reputation, Ossuary Owner Arrested for Fraud, Final Reports on the Yehoash Inscription and James Ossuary from the Israeli Antiquities Authority

6. Islam

Threads: Quest for the Historical Muhammad?, What do we know about Muhammad?

Peter Kirby

Dozens of people have looked at this, but nobody has any comment on whether to continue and such?

IIDB BC&H FAQ Version 0.3 [December 9, 2006]

0. About this FAQ

This FAQ is the distilled wisdom of IIDB regulars concerning Biblical Criticism & History. It is rewritten monthly and posted as a sticky in the BC&H forum of IIDB, at this URL:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/forumdisplay.php?f=60

Maintainers: Peter Kirby <peterkirby@gmail.com>

Copyright © 2006. All maintainers agree to dual license their work as GFDL and CC-by-sa.

1. The Bible in General and Errancy

Q: Does the Bible contain error?

A: As you would expect of a set of documents compiled from five dozen authors, written over a span of about eight centuries, the Bible does contains error, even contradiction within itself.

1.1 Prophecy

Q: Prophecy in the Bible is often discussed: does the Bible contain accurate oracles, or have they been disconfirmed? What is prophecy anyway, and does what the NT authors count as prophecy actually originate as such?

A: Some argue that the Bible contains no accurate oracles. Some argue that what the NT authors take as messianic prophecy is not such.

Threads: Magus55: take the Prophecy Challenge!, Is Isaiah 7:14 a messianic prophecy?, Messianic Prophesies, Are there any messianic prophecies in the OT?, Another thread about christ in the old testament, Some Alleged Messianic Prophecies, Is Jesus the messiah of the OT?, Has any prophecies come true?

1.2 Eschatology

Q: What is eschatology?

A: Eschatology is the subject of the end of the world.

Threads: Layman's Dubious Interpretation of Hebrews 9:26

2. History in General and Religion

2.1 Metahistory

Q: What is historical criticism?

A: See my essay on Wikipedia about historical criticism.

Threads: Benefit of the Doubt, Realism and Biblical History

2.2 Minimalist debates

Q: What is minimalism?

A: Joel Ng had some good answers in this area before.

Threads: Biblical "Minimalism" vs "Maximalism", When did the Hebrews emerge as a separate people?, Minimalist recommendations and a few others

3. Jewish Scripture

3.1 Books of Jewish Scripture

3.1.1 Genesis

Genesis is the first book of the Bible.

3.1.2 Proverbs

Proverbs is a collection of advice on living.

Threads: The Value of Proverbs

3.1.3 Daniel

Daniel is literature.

Threads: Daniel: Multiple authorship of Daniel

4. Christian Scripture

4.1 Books of Christian Scripture

4.1.1 Matthew

Matthew is a Synoptic Gospel.

4.1.2 Mark

Mark is a Synoptic Gospel.

4.1.2.1 Ending of Mark?

Most scholars believe that the verses Mark 16:9-20 are unoriginal.

Threads: Mark's Ending, Does the original Mark end with 16:8, How did the Gospel of Mark end?

4.1.3 Luke

Luke is a Synoptic Gospel.

4.1.4 John

John is the maverick Gospel.

Threads: Johannine Sectarians

4.1.5 Acts

Acts is the story of the early Jerusalem church and of Paul.

Threads: Are the "We-Passage" in Acts Literary Conventions for Describing Sea-Voyages?, Vernon K Robbins replies to Layman on We Passages in Acts, Confirmation and Correlation in Acts and the Pauline Epistles, Did the author of Acts have access to Paul's letters?, References on Acts Requested, First Person Perspective in Ancient Sea Travel

4.1.6 Galatians

Galatians is a letter of Paul.

Threads: Authenticity of Gal 1:19

4.1.7 Hebrews

Hebrews is an anonymous epistle.

Threads: Doherty's translation of Heb 8:4

4.1.8 Revelation

Revelation, the last book in the Bible, declares itself written by John of Patmos.

Threads: 666: What is supposed to really mean?, Explain Revelation, Mystery of 666

4.1.9 Secret Mark

Also known as the "Gospel Hoax."

Threads: "Secret Mark", We know Smith wrote Secret Mark! Er, I think, update about the Secret Mark, Secret Mark is authentic: the evidence, Secret Mark is authentic: the evidence (Parts 3-4)

4.1.10 Gospel of Thomas

The Gospel of Thomas is considered a "fifth gospel," as it is a widely celebrated collection of sayings of Jesus.

Threads: The Alleged Late Dating of GThomas

4.1.11 Theophilus of Antioch

Theophilus was a church father.

Threads: Had Theophilus heard of Jesus?

4.2 Issues with the Gospels

4.2.1 Dating the Gospels

When were the gospels written? Your guess is as good as mine, within certain bounds.

Threads: Dating Matthew and Mark, Round tomb blocking stone as evidence for a late dating of Mark?, When were the gospels written, Gospel Author evidence, Did Jesus Really Exist?, Dating the Gospel of Thomas, Date and authorship of the Gospels, Jesus in the Talmud?, Were the Gospels written within the so called 'Eye Witness Period'?

4.2.2 Synoptic Problem

You'll find that the priority of Mark, the idea that Mark was the first Gospel written, is very popular on this board.

Threads: Unfamiliar or unusal words in Mark?

4.2.3 Infancy Narratives

These are the contradictory stories of Jesus' nativity.

Threads: Census thing again!, King Herod, The credibility of Matthew

4.2.4 Instability of Texts

In other words, the way that the gospels changed over time.

Threads: Textual Evolution, Helmut Koester and What Josh Mcdowell Forgot to Tell us..., The Corrupted Text of Canonical Mark

4.3 Canon of Scripture

Sorry, the boys in funny hats didn't actually determine this by vote.

Threads: How did the Nicene Council influence the Bible?

5. Christian Origins

5.1 Historicity of Jesus

The phrase "the historicity of Jesus" refers to whether or not there was a man named Jesus known to his brother James, the apostle Peter, and other followers of Jesus.

5.1.1 Arguments against HJ

Threads: Today's Leaders, The Strange Silence of Samuel Rutherford, There ARE Echoes of Jesus in Earlier Myths, 7th Century crucifixion iconography - Why so late?, The origins of the Passion Narrative, The Passion Narrative and Philo, Philo, There was no historical Jesus, What's the best argument against historical Jesus?, Support for Doherty Please

5.1.2 Arguments for HJ

Threads: Doherty's Dubious Analysis of Hebrews 13:11-13, Doherty's Dubious Interpretation of Hebrews 9:27-28, How Do We Know When Jesus Lived?, Is Gmark the product of the fictionalization of a heavenly Christ myth?, What is the conclusive, historical evidence for the existence of Jesus?, A Good Indication That Jesus Existed, Crossan's First Stratum, They don't make dying/rising savior gods like they used to!, Evidence for Jesus existence is solid, Jesus Variants

5.1.3 Methodology and the Historicity of Jesus

Threads: New XTALK article blasts Meier on Multiple Attestation

5.1.4 Books about the Historicity of Jesus

Threads: Book Review: The Jesus Myth (Wells) and Deconstructing Jesus (Price), Crossan's The Historical Jesus: A Review, The Jesus the Jews Never Knew: Book Review By Earl Doherty of Zindler's New Book

5.1.5 Polls about the Historicity of Jesus

Threads: Are you a HJer, JMer, or agnostic on the issue?, Was there a Historical Jesus? The IIDB Poll, Which Major Religious Figures do You Think Existed

5.2 Non-Christian Sources

5.2.1 Josephus on Jesus?

Threads: Kirby on the Testimonium Flavianum (1), Kirby on the Testimonium Flavanium (2), Kirby on the Testimonium Flavianum (3), Kirby on the Testimonium (4), Ant. 20.9.1 (for Bede), Open Discussion on Arguments for TF, The Christ Passage in Josephus

5.3 Entheogenic Theory

Threads: Jesus Used Cannabis

5.4 Resurrection

Jesus is dead.

Threads: resurrection debates, Proof Of The Resurrection?, Easter Account Contradictions, The truth about the empty tomb, Wright anyone?, The Historicity of the Empty Tomb Evaluated, Paul's Belief in a Bodily Resurrection

5.5 Apostles

They must have died somehow...the question is how.

Threads: Evidence for the historical apostles?, Apostolic Martyrdom

5.6 James Brother of Jesus Ossuary

And the world spins on, a few reputations bruised, and brain cells wasted.

Threads: First Century Archeological Evidence for the Existence of Jesus?, First Century Relic Laughed at by Christians, Inscription To Be Publically Displayed and Tested Again, The First Century Jesus Inscription (a compliation of relevant information), a crack through Jesus, Ossuary was genuine, inscription was faked, Experts Question Authenticity of Bone Box for `Brother of Jesus', Aerospace engineer's examination of the ossuary, Israeli Geological Service's statement on the ossuary, Updates on the ossuary, Fitzmyer's position regarding authenticity of the ossuary, Ossuary, ossuary, who's got the ossuary?, Oded Golan (ossuary owner), Response to Robert Turkel on the authenticity of the ossuary, Response to Turkel on the ossuary, part 2, More ossuary nonsense, Discovery Channel on the Ossuary of James, Make your own ancient artifact! a How-to Guide, New in BAR, XTALK just posted: Ossuary reportedly determined fake..., Jehoash Tablet reportedly judged a forgery, Israeli Antiquities Authority says ''James Ossuary'' inscription a fake, The Ossuary and The Committee, Altman's Latest Devastation of the Ossuary, Shanks: "I'm still not convinced", BAR article, Jul/Aug 2003: New tests bolster case for authenticity of ossuary, Please help save our reputation, Ossuary Owner Arrested for Fraud, Final Reports on the Yehoash Inscription and James Ossuary from the Israeli Antiquities Authority

6. Islam

No, I won't be writing "peace be upon him" after the name Muhammad.

Threads: Quest for the Historical Muhammad?, What do we know about Muhammad?

Amaleq13

Fabulous work!:thumbs:

Do you sleep?

Peter Kirby

I will continue with this if anyone else contributes anything...

(1) An additional link to a thread...
(2) A few words of question and answer for the FAQ
(3) Anything else that could go in the FAQ
(4) Some objection to the material in the FAQ already

If nobody else contributes, however, I will have to let it wither.

kind regards,
Peter Kirby

Peter Kirby

*bump* if there be just one of ye infidels who appreciates and contributes, let us save the idea of a FAQ from destruction...

--
Peter Kirby

Kosh

You have a syntax typo under 4.1.10.

Does that qualify as you "one good contributor" to save soddom and gemorah?

Peter Kirby

Can't say that it does.

--
Peter Kirby

Ecrasez L'infame

Well, I think all the big hitters in this forum already know this stuff, and so perhaps they won't be so interested - but me, I'm exactly the kind of occasional Infidel that would find this more orderly presentation of the basic facts (assuming that means anything!) incredibly useful. If you can stomach the workload, Peter - and it looks considerable - please do this.

But I think we ought to keep the basic questions sticky too. It is way too big and hard to reference, but we love it.