No Robots

I did correct myself on that.

The Encylopedia, while hardly the last word, provides a good entry point into this very much discussed question. I have cited other sources. Here is one interesting passage that I recently found:

The use of rabbi for a Jewish religious teacher as an address rather than a title is attested for R. Eleazar b. Azariah, who addressed his teacher R. Yohanan b. Zakkai (d. ca. AD 80) as rabbi when visiting him on the occasion of the death of Yohanan's son ('Abot R. Nat. 14). Hillel likewise was addressed as rabbi (Lev. Rab. 34, 130d).--Andreas J. Kostenburger. "Jesus as Rabbi in the Fourth Gospel." In Bulletin for Biblical Research 8 (1998): p. 107.

Sheshonq

Yes, you did. Thank you for doing so.

No, it doesn't. The 'entry point' has not backed your position, and created more questions than it has provided answers.

No, you have namedropped books and authors, without being able to detail what they say. That isn't the same as citing sources.

This merely confirms what I said earlier -- and what the Jewish encyclopedia said: the usage of this term dates from the disciples of ben Zakkai. Azariah was a disciple of ben Zakkai.

It would be years later before the familiar term of respect grew into an actual title.

But both (a) the familiar term and (b) the actual title occur chronologically after the period of Christ. So at the end of the day, the term 'rabbi' is still an anachronism in the gospels.

No Robots

What about Hillel? He isn't post-Christian.

Here is a good summary:

In all four Gospels Jesus is addressed as didaskaie, 'teacher!' As the synonymous parallelism in Mt. 23.8 shows, the vocative of didaskaios translates the Hebrew/Aramaic address רבי, which originally meant 'my great one'. In an explanatory statement Jn 1.38 expressly makes this identification, which is corroborated by some epigraphical evidence (C/7, II, 1266, 1268/69) from pre-70 AD Jerusalem [cf. Zimmermann "Die urchristlichen Lehrer," p. 69-91]. In the first century AD rabbi was not a fixed title for an academically trained and ordained scribe as it became later and has remained until the present day. The actual address, rabbi, was used mainly, though not exclusively, for a teacher. The Gospels reflect accurately this usage, which apparently began to change with the rabbinic reconstruction of Judaism after the end of the first century AD. Rabbi as a formal title with the personal suffix losing its significance is first attested in the Jewish necropolis of Beth Shearim starting in the second century AD.--Riesner, Rainier. "Jesus as Preacher and Teacher," Chapter in Jesus and the Oral Gospel Tradition By Henry Wansborough (ed.), p. 186.

And another:

Jesus of Nazareth appeared as a wisdom teacher and prophet. The title 'Rabbi' (teacher) was current in the pre-Easter period (Bultmann 1957: 43-6). Originally, the title Rabbi only signified the honorary title 'sir' (Hahn 1963: 74-79), but in Jesus' time it was already the main equivalent of the Greek didaskalos meaning 'teacher' (Riesner 1981: 272-73; Zimmermann 1984: 70-91). The interchangeability of Rabbi for didaskalos was taken for granted by the Synoptic tradition.--The New Testament Among the Writings of Antiquity By Detlev Dormeyer, p.28.

Jeffrey Gibson

Here's some data from the TDNT entry on Rabbi that you might want to consider:

Ραάβ III, 3, 13 ff.

�* ῥαββί, ῥαββουνί

A. רַבִּי, רַבּוֹ�*ִי in Judaism.
1. רַב “great” is a term for someone who occupies a high and respected position.1 Cf. רַב־טַבָּחִים 2 K. 25:8; Jer. 39:13, “the chief of the guard”; רַב־מָג Jer. 39:3, 13, “the chief magician”; רַב־בֵּיתוֹ Est. 1:8 “officer of his household”; רַב־סָרִיס 2 K. 18:17; Jer. 39:3, 13 or רַב־סָרִיסִים Da. 1:3 “lord high chamberlain.” רַבִּי2 or רַבֵּי�*וּ “my/our great one or lord,” is a respectful term of address for the high official by those under him, → II, 153, n. 36. The one called רַבִּי is recognised thereby to be higher in rank than the speaker:3 the prince by the people,4 the master by the slave (Pes., 8, 2), the master craftsman by his associates (b. AZ, 17b), the robber captain by his accomplices (b. BM, 84a). רַבִּי can also be used on occasion for the prophet Elijah (b. Ber., 3a), the Messiah,5 and God.6 Above all, it was a custom for the pupil to address his teacher thus.7 Derived from רַב the intensified form רַבָּן “lord” is a title for the outstanding scribe.8 רַבָּן obviously served also as “the older Jewish designation for the head of the Jews recognised by the Roman government.”9 Since Palest. Aram. often has the ending -on for -an,10 we also find the form רַבּוֹן later often רִבּוֹן.11 In the Tg. רִבּוֹן is used in address to men,12 but elsewhere it is reserved almost exclusively for God, esp. in the phrase “Lord of the world,” רִבּוֹ�*וֹ שֶׁל עוֹלָם or רִבֹּוֹ�*ֵיהּ דְּעָלְמָא.13 In the Palest. Pentateuch Tg. רַבּוּ�*ִי14 occurs with the suffix of the 1st person.15

2. רַבּ is already used for “teacher” in the saying handed down by Jehoshua b. Perachiah (c. 110 b.c.): “Get a teacher (רַב) and find a fellow-student.”16 The saying shows that a student had to try to gain admittance into the circle of a respected teacher and to engage in the study of Scripture and tradition in this fellowship. If the teacher acceded to his request the תַּלְמִיר could enter the school and in daily contact with his master he could get to know the Torah, and the tradition tested thereby, from his decisions and teachings.17 The pupil followed his teacher with obedience and respect and expressed this by addressing him as רַבִּי “my master” but also “my teacher.”18 Since the student-teacher relation is determined by respect, and this is as gt. as the respect accorded to heaven (== God, Ab., 4, 12), the student was bound to his teacher for the rest of his life.19 When after several yrs. of association with his master he had become familiar with the oral tradition he would be called תַּלְמיר־חָכָם and allowed to teach himself and to be addressed as Rabbi, → IV, 432 f.20 Nor did the scribes receive this respectful appellation only from their pupils; theologians were held in such high esteem by the people that everybody greeted them with this title. Thus we read in the Talmudic tradition: “When King Jehoshaphat saw a תַּלְמִיר־חָכָם he rose up from his throne. embraced and kissed him, and addressed him as ‘my father, my father’ (אָבִי, אָבִי) ‘my teacher, my teacher’ (רַבִּי, רַבִּי ), ‘my lord, my lord’ (רַכִּי),”21 Since the scribes were generally called רַבִּר and referred to as such in the presence of others,22 רַבִי23 gradually became the exclusive term for those who had completed their studies and been ordained as teachers of the Law.24 From the middle of the 1st cent. a.d. the suffix increasingly lost its pronominal significance25 and examples of רַבִּי as a general title begin to appear.26 From the end of the 1st cent. a.d. רַבִּי as a title occurs on many Jewish inscr., esp. burial inscr., in Palestine,27 Syria,28 Cyprus,29 and Italy.30 Along with the common use of the title in Rabb. lit., these bear witness to the general employment and recognition of רַבִּי as a way of showing respect to the scribe throughout Judaism.

Jeffrey

Toto

TDNT is Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (or via: amazon.co.uk) (or the unabridged version (or via: amazon.co.uk).)

How would you date this?

Jeffrey Gibson

I'd first send it flowers and then a card. Maybe suggest we go out for coffee.

Jeffrey

Gamera

That was my understanding. So the use of "rhabbi" by Mark and the other gospel writers isn't related to that question.

Gamera

Isn't this more or less the sense used by Mark and the other gospels, rebutting the OP?

Toto

Oh, but wouldn't I have to approach his/her/its father first and convince him that my intentions are honorable, this being a traditional culture?

:wave:

Sheshonq

Correct, he wasn't. But Hillel was the greatest sage of the time. In spite of that, he never received the title "rabbi". His only title was "Ha-Zaken".

The fact that there is one record of him being addressed with respect in familiar terms the word 'rabbi' does not show that the term was in common usage at the time. Hillel was anything except common.


Ah, this is better now. Much more convincing than your previous source. If this stands, then you may be correct that the familiar usage was common during the time of Christ.

However, the Matthew usage indicates 'rabbi' as a title for the scribes and Pharisees. That would still be anachronistic.

Not another, actually; it relies upon Riesner, who was your first source. So it is a reiteration of the first source, not a separate second source.

By the way: I appreciate the fact that you went to the trouble find other sources for this claim. That's a sign of good debate character, in my book.