Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 03-19-2009, 04:21 PM

I'm waiting to hear about the vide from Mar 8.

show_no_mercy · 03-20-2009, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camio

Quote:

Dr. Craig said during a rebuttal that Dr. Carrier “needs to learn to read the lines before he can read between the lines,” which got big laughs from the polite crowd, which seemed to side with Dr. Craig throughout the night.

Wow, what a powerful argument. Was the rest in the same league? Is this the kind of "rational debate" this Dr. Craig is used to? :banghead:

Heh.

So it really doesn't matter if you have a cogent argument, as long as you get people to laugh then you win. I guess people can be convinced the moon is made of gremlin farts as long as you're charismatic.

Switch89 · 03-20-2009, 01:19 PM

Found the audio here:

http://apologetics315.blogspot.com/2...ane-craig.html

Toto · 03-20-2009, 03:56 PM

Carrier has updated his blog:
Craig Debate Wrap

He didn't think he was at his best, but

Quote:

thinking over Craig's position against my key argument regarding the Gospels inspired a "eureka!" moment on the plane ride home. I landed with a rock solid Bayesian proof of my position, scribbled out on the hotel writing pad I'd been using for notes the whole trip. I'll be able to include that in my book, which will make it a great deal stronger than even I had expected.

Toto · 03-20-2009, 08:15 PM

I'm listening to the mp3. Craig comes accross as slick. It is interesting that he started by saying that Christians do not rely on historical evidence, but on their internal experience of the risen Jesus. He seems to have backed off his stance that the history is sufficient for belief.

Carrier just sounds like he doesn't have enough time to explain everything.

The audience has lots of questions about hallucinations.

Toto · 03-20-2009, 08:44 PM

Craig is an evil man. Why didn't God appear to everyone, not just to a few obscure people? Because God will appear to anyone who would be willing to enter into a loving relationship with him. What arrogant rot.

thedistillers · 03-21-2009, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

I'm listening to the mp3. Craig comes accross as slick. It is interesting that he started by saying that Christians do not rely on historical evidence, but on their internal experience of the risen Jesus. He seems to have backed off his stance that the history is sufficient for belief.

As far as I know, Craig has always claimed the same things. He claims people can know Christianity is true with their internal experience; in that case the historical evidence serves as a confirmation. But he also thinks that people can rationally become Christian by looking at the historical evidence.

Quote:

Craig is an evil man. Why didn't God appear to everyone, not just to a few obscure people? Because God will appear to anyone who would be willing to enter into a loving relationship with him. What arrogant rot.

He said the same thing when he "debated" Carrier on the Lee Strobel show. It's sheer idiocy. Any lunatic could make the same claims as Craig:

- You can know fairies exist with an internal experience of fairies.
- Fairies don't appear to those who are not willing to enter into a loving relationship with them.
- Etc.

Deus Ex · 03-21-2009, 08:14 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqoRV...e=channel_page

I believe this is the debate on youtube.

aChristian · 03-22-2009, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Craig is an evil man. Why didn't God appear to everyone, not just to a few obscure people? Because God will appear to anyone who would be willing to enter into a loving relationship with him. What arrogant rot.

I don't know him personally, but I imagine that those who know him think he is a nice person. I wonder if the people who know you would say the same.

Toto · 03-22-2009, 07:41 PM

I am sure that Craig is a nice guy on a personal level. That's not the point. He is a paid intellectual gladiator who is promoting bad logic and bad history.

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03-19-2009, 04:21 PM	#11
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	I'm waiting to hear about the vide from Mar 8.

03-20-2009, 01:19 PM	#13
Switch89 Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Montgomery, AL Posts: 453	Found the audio here: http://apologetics315.blogspot.com/2...ane-craig.html

03-20-2009, 08:15 PM	#15
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	I'm listening to the mp3. Craig comes accross as slick. It is interesting that he started by saying that Christians do not rely on historical evidence, but on their internal experience of the risen Jesus. He seems to have backed off his stance that the history is sufficient for belief. Carrier just sounds like he doesn't have enough time to explain everything. The audience has lots of questions about hallucinations.

03-20-2009, 08:44 PM	#16
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Craig is an evil man. Why didn't God appear to everyone, not just to a few obscure people? Because God will appear to anyone who would be willing to enter into a loving relationship with him. What arrogant rot.

03-21-2009, 08:14 AM	#18
Deus Ex Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,348	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqoRV...e=channel_page I believe this is the debate on youtube.

03-22-2009, 07:41 PM	#20
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	I am sure that Craig is a nice guy on a personal level. That's not the point. He is a paid intellectual gladiator who is promoting bad logic and bad history.

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