aa5874

The God of Moses would not get the credit if you somehow manage to be healed in the name of Beelzebub.

Beelzebub would get the credit.

Johnny Skeptic

The Pharisees believed that God gave Moses the power to perform miracles, not Beelzebub. They also believed that God heals people, not Beelzebub.

Consider the following possibilities:

1. The Pharisees believed that Jesus cast out demons by the power of Beelzebub, and that Jesus healed sick people by the power of Beelzebub.

2. The Pharisees believed that Jesus cast out demons by the power of Beelzebub, and that Jesus healed sick people by the power of God.

3. The Pharisees believed that Jesus cast out demons by the power of God, and that Jesus healed sick people by the power of God.

Item 1 does not make sense because the Old Testament apparently always attributes healings to God.

Item 2 does not make sense because it is very doubtful that the Pharisees believed that Jesus used the power of Beelzebub on some occasions, and the power of God on other occasions.

Only item 3 makes sense. The Pharisees surely believed that demons are evil, and they certainly did not want people to be possessed by demons. They wanted God to cast demons out of people. They also wanted God to heal people. Thus, there would not have been any good reasons for the Pharisees to object to a messiah who cast out demons and healed people with God's power.

gee

This isn't an error at all.
It's a testament to da Jesus' skills.
You all are leaving out Jesus' answer to this idea. He attacked it using the now famous "a house divided against itself cannot stand" idea.
The Pharisees did not, did not want to, believe He was the messiah. They weren't pleased at all about his miracles.

Johnny Skeptic

The Pharisees believed the Old Testament. The Old Testament apparently always attributes healings to God. If Jesus healed people, there are not any good reasons to assume that the Pharisees believed that Jesus healed people by the power of Beelzebub since there apparently are not any Old Testament precedents for an evil being healing people. Why wouldn't a messiah from God heal people? If God gave Moses the power to perform miracles, what would be unusual about him giving a messiah the power to perform miracles?

bacht

Isn't the point of the story to criticize the Jews in general and the Pharisees in particular? If Matthew's audience was mostly gentiles several decades after the 30s how would they know any better?

Johnny Skeptic

Here is the opening post again:

My main interest for purposes of this thread is what the Pharisees believed about where Jesus got his powers from. Who Matthew's main audience was is irrelevant to this thread.

show_no_mercy

Well of course not. The writer(s) of Exodus didn't believe in demons.

bacht

Yes but the gospels are poor sources for information about the Pharisees, I think most commentators would say (the Mishnah would be better). I don't think it's a good idea to reinforce the anti-Jewish defamations in the NT.

The Pharisees were probably the "good guys" in the 1st C, at least compared to the Sadducees or Zealots.

Minimalist

More to the point, why would anyone give credence to anything "Matthew" says? ( He also says the "Star of Bethlehem" bounced along the ground on its way to illuminating the manger!

He also says that Jewish zombies got up and walked around Jerusalem after the crucifixion.

There is a credibility gap here.

John Kesler

The Beelzebul accusation has more credibility, I think, because Mark mentions it also (as does Luke), while the "star of Bethlehem" and "resurrected saints" pericopes are in Matthew only and are obviously more fabulous. (It should be noted, though, that Matthew changes Jesus' adversaries from Mark's "scribes" to "Pharisees.")