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Old 03-03-2013, 11:01 PM   #1
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Default Circumcision and monotheism

Has anyone asked if there are any correlations? Might circumcision be a necessary factor in getting people to be monotheistic?

Why does Paul go on about it? Why was it really such an important point in the New Testament?

I had not realised, for example, that Hadrian had banned it.....
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Old 03-04-2013, 01:33 AM   #2
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I think circumcision was practiced by the Egyptians, who were not monotheists.
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:51 AM   #3
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The Egyptians were occasional monotheists and I believe the Jews copied circumcision from the Egyptians (or at least from Africans).
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:24 AM   #4
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The Egyptians were occasional monotheists and I believe the Jews copied circumcision from the Egyptians (or at least from Africans).

Circumcision was widely practiced in the middle east and northeast Africa in antiquity. It is very possible the Jews didn't copy it from the Egyptians, but that both inherited it from a shared ancestor. Of course, it's possible the influence of Egypt ensured that nearby afro-asiatic tribes kept up the practice as well.

The existence of Christianity, Sikhism and Zoroastrism - three monotheistic religions that generally don't practice circumcision is also kind of relevant here. If those three could exist without circumcision, then it's clear there's no reason to assume monotheism only can thrive with circumcision.
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Old 03-05-2013, 03:39 AM   #5
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And all three need looking at in detail. Xianity and Sikhism are both reactions to other stuff, xianity had a real debate about it. Sikhism similarly is a reaction to Islam, Xianity, Hinduism and Buddhism.

Xianity is probably only anti circumcision because the Romans and Greeks were.

The interesting question is why Islam went for it, when it obviously has strong Persian roots.

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There are ancient religious requirements for circumcision. The Hebrew Bible commands Jews to circumcise their male children on the eighth day of life, and to circumcise their male slaves (Genesis 17:11-12).

Laws banning circumcision are also ancient. The ancient Greeks prized the foreskin and disapproved of the Jewish custom of circumcision.[1] 1 Maccabees, 1:60–61 states that King Antiochus IV of Syria, the occupying power of Judea in 170 BCE, outlawed circumcision on penalty of death.[2] one of the grievances leading to the Maccabean Revolt.[3]

According to the Historia Augusta, the Roman emperor Hadrian issued a decree banning circumcision in the empire,[4] and some modern scholars argue that this was a main cause of the Jewish Bar Kokhba revolt of 132 CE.[5] The Roman historian Cassius Dio, however, made no mention of such a law, and blamed the Jewish uprising instead on Hadrian's decision to rebuild Jerusalem as Aelia Capitolina, a city dedicated to Jupiter.

Antoninus Pius permitted Jews to circumcise their own sons. However, he forbade the circumcision of non-Jews that were either foreign-slaves or non-Jewish members of the household, contrary to Genesis 17:12 He also made it illegal for a man to convert to Judaism.[6] Antoninus Pius exempted the Egyptian priesthood from the otherwise universal ban on circumcision.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision_and_law
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Old 03-05-2013, 03:47 AM   #6
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Might any correlation be with fundamentalist attitudes?
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:55 AM   #7
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Might any correlation be with fundamentalist attitudes?
Of course. Cutting the foreskin off of an infant's penis narrows the mind.

It has been seen in many instances, a new religion co-opts and assumes the culture and its traditions. Circumcision has been practiced in the middle east for untold generations before the Tribes if Israel assumed their identity.

It's the sort of thing that requires a serious emotional investment. Once it is a solid cultural tradition, it will not be easily relinquished.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:50 AM   #8
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And all three need looking at in detail. Xianity and Sikhism are both reactions to other stuff, xianity had a real debate about it. Sikhism similarly is a reaction to Islam, Xianity, Hinduism and Buddhism.
The spread of Christianity mainly appeared after circumcision had widely been rejected, though. Most converts to Christianity did not convert to it in order to take a stand against Judaism.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:35 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Clivedurdle View Post
Might any correlation be with fundamentalist attitudes?
Of course. Cutting the foreskin off of an infant's penis narrows the mind.

It has been seen in many instances, a new religion co-opts and assumes the culture and its traditions. Circumcision has been practiced in the middle east for untold generations before the Tribes if Israel assumed their identity.

It's the sort of thing that requires a serious emotional investment. Once it is a solid cultural tradition, it will not be easily relinquished.
It should not be too difficult to carry out some statistical and population studies.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:53 AM   #10
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It should not be too difficult to carry out some statistical and population studies.
Circumcision (both male and female), subincision, hemi-castration, scarification, head binding, foot binding, nose bones, neck extensions, and a host of other mutilations have been practiced by a whole-variety of groups over the centuries. These rituals are only incidentally connected to religion or some variety of same like monotheism.

The fact is, adults simply enjoy doing such things to the young---always justifying it on some other basis, of course.
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