jakejonesiv

Dear aa5874,

What is your "evidence" :hitsthefan: that "short gMark" (sic) was the earliest New Testament text? Sez who?

You tell me now:

• Who wrote gMark
• Where
• When (what century?)

Jake

Bernard Muller

About Aretas,
From my website:
part of 32-33 (more so "of Aretas the king") or the whole is contested as interpolation because there is no external evidence that Damascus came under Aretas' rule at that time. However, it is not necessarily meant here this ethnarch had control of the city. Rather, he may just have been the representative of Nabataean residents and, at the same time, ambassador for Aretas IV (9-40C.E.). As such, he could hire henchmen in order to watch the few city gates and search for Paul, for the purpose of bringing him to trial.
a) Damascus was a center of trade by caravans and immediately North of the territory held by the Nabataean Arabs. Furthermore, in the past, Damascus had been part of the Nabataean kingdom. Therefore the presence of a Nabataean minority in Damascus is plausible.
b) According to Josephus (Ant., XIX, V, 2-3), the Jews of Alexandria (Egypt) were represented by an ethnarch and Claudius extended the practice to all cities with Diaspora Jews. Therefore it is very plausible other significant national minorities in cities would also have their own ethnarch.

Cordially, Bernard

aa5874

How illogical can you be?? People here don't accept Catholic tradition as credible. People here can't find any compelling evidence that the Pauline writings were early.

In fact, there is ZERO corroborative evidence in the NT Canon itself for early Pauline letters.

We know that there was a Tradition that the Pauline letters were composed AFTER the Apocalypse of John.

Muratorian Canon We have compelling evidence that the Pauline letters were UNKNOWN up to 180 CE and were composed AFTER c 70 ce

aa5874

What is your evidence that the book of Genesis was written before the New Testament texts? Sez who? :hitsthefan:

Who wrote Genesis?? :hitsthefan:

Where? :hitsthefan:

When (what century?) :hitsthefan:


Now, you must have known of the Markan Priority hypothesis.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markan_priority

Once gMark is acknowledged to be the first written Gospel then there could NO knowledge of Jesus until the story was composed just like there was NO knowledge of Joseph Smith's story of Moroni and the Golden Plates until it was composed.

Any writing which mentions Joseph Smith's story about Moroni and the Golden Plates are MOST LIKELY AFTER the story was known and composed.

Any writing, including the Pauline writings, which mentioned the Jesus story most likely was AFTER the Jesus story was known and composed especially when the Pauline writer ADMITTED he persecuted those who BELIEVED the story that Jesus was crucified, died for OUR SINS, was buried, resurrected on the third day and was Seen by over 500 people.

The earliest Jesus story MUST predate the Persecutor of the those who believed it.

The Pauline writings about Jesus MUST come AFTER the short gMark Jesus story.

Bernard Muller

I am quite sure aa will have a different answer but I'll reply:

Who wrote gMark? I have somebody in mind, but it would be just speculation: not enough evidence.
where? likely Corinth (80% certitude)
when? definitively 1st century, most likely early 71 CE as explained here

About Matthew's gospel, still 1st century, as explained here

About 1 Clement dating, see here (around 81)

And if gLuke and 'Acts' were written so late, why did the author, who knew about Josephus' Wars, did not know about his 'Antiquities'? See here

And Jake, you still did not answer the second example here (about gLuke written before gMarcion)

Cordially, Bernard

Bernard Muller

Jake,
How do you reconcile Markan priority with Marcion's gospel being first?
Do you reject Markan priority?
Can you give us a sequence of composition for the 4 canonicals & Marcion's, with approximate dates?

Cordially, Bernard

outhouse

The previous discussions for the date of 1 Clement, does not change the current dates.

So your up a creek here.

While Acts cannot be trusted in whole, it is first century and describes Pauls work.

That is multiple attestation.

Your attack on someone with vast knowledge over yours was pretty pathetic, you hold no credibility where she holds credibility.

By the way the vast majority of scholars discount the German Protestant scholarships.

Instead of trying to discount someone with vast knowledge over your own, please stay focussed and try and deal with mutiple attestation.

Stop Digressing


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Epistle_of_Clement

In the case of the first epistle the scholarly consensus is overwhelmingly in favour of its authenticity,[1] whereas by contrast it is widely accepted that the second epistle is not to be attributed to Clement. Many scholars believe 1 Clement was written around the same time as the Book of Revelation, c. 95-97 AD.

outhouse

Good work.

I didnt know it was yours till I hit the bottom

aa5874

You seem to have NO idea Multiple Church writers and Apologetic sources Contradict Ireneaus.

There was NEVER any Dissension of the Church of Corinth. The Anonymous letter was composed AFTER the END of the 4th century.

1. Tertullian--Clement c 68-80 CE

2. Optatus--Clement c 68-80 CE

3. Augustine of Hippo--Clement c 68-80 CE

4. Rufinus--Clement c 68-80 CE

5. The Chronograph of 354--Clement c 68-80 CE

aa5874

All the Canonised authors of the Jesus stories, Acts of the Apostles and Pauline writers knew of the writings of Josephus including Antiquities of the Jews and the biography of Flavius Josephus.

The Biography of Josephus is considered to have been composed around 100 CE and the Canonised Gospels contain certain details that are Only found in Josephus' biography.

1. The crucifixion of Three Jews where one survived is in the Gospels and also in the Life of Flavius Josephus composed c 100 CE.


2. Joseph asked the Roman governor for the body of Jesus in the Gospels---Josephus asked Titus that his acquaintances be taken from their crosses in the Life of Flavius Josephus composed c 100 CE.

3. The followers of Jesus were poor and some were Fishermen or mariners from Galilee in the Gospels---Jesus the son of Sapphias had a band of poor people and mariners from Galilee in the Life of Flavius Josephus composed c 100 CE.

4. John the Baptist is mentioned in the Gospels--John the Baptist is mentioned in Antiquities of the Jews composed c 93 CE.

5. The execution of John the Baptist by Herod is in the Gospels--- the execution of John the Baptist is also found in Antiquities of the Jews composed c 93 CE.

6. The marriage of Herod to his brother's wife is in the Gospels---a similar story is found in "Antiquities of the Jews" composed c 93 CE.

7. Caiaphas the high Priest is found in the Gospels--Caiaphas the High Priest is in "Antiquities of the Jews composed c 93 CE.

8. The Taxing of Cyrenius is in gLuke--the Taxing of Cyrenius is found in Antiquities of the Jews composed c 93 CE

9. The death of Herod is found in Acts of the Apostles--the death of Herod is found in Antiquities of the Jews composed c 93 CE.

10. A character called the Apostle James whose brother was Jesus is in Galatians--a character called James whose brother was Jesus is in "Antiquities of the Jews" composed c 93 CE.

All writings in the Canon, including the Pauline writings were composed AFTER the writings of Josephus.

Life of Falvius Josephus