Jagella

The short answer to this questions is yes, but I imagine many people would prefer a detailed explanation.

(I will assume for this issue that the gospel accounts are accurate in the way they quoted Jesus, and all Bible quotations are from the King James Version.)

To begin, let us consider a definition of “hypocrite� courtesy of www.Google.com

As I hope most of you know, Jesus often denounced the “hypocrisy� of his enemies, the priests and scribes.

Did Jesus not actually hold the beliefs and especially the moral tenets that he preached especially his preaching against hypocrisy? Let’s consider one of the better known teachings of Jesus,’ that of turning the other cheek:

Jesus’ lashing out at the priests calling them “hypocrites� is hardly “turning the other cheek.�

Perhaps even more salient, is Jesus’ duplicity in telling people to love their enemies.

How much did Jesus live up to his commandments to love one’s enemies and do good to those who hate you? Consider the following:

I don’t know about how others may feel, but if I was called a “viper� and told I was going to hell, I would hardly feel loved or that my verbal assailant was blessing me.

In conclusion, I believe a good case can be made that the New Testament Jesus was hardly the loving man that many Christians believe him to be. He was vituperative and often resorted to name-calling. Like many Christian beliefs, the “love of Jesus� is not really based in the claims of the Bible; rather, they are perhaps based more in what Christian are taught in church and Sunday school without much questioning about what the facts really are.

Any polite comments, questions, or rebuttals would be appreciated.

Jagella

Diogenes the Cynic

It may interest you to know in Greek upokrithV (hupokrites) means "stage actor."

So when the gospels quote Jesus as calling people "hypocrites," he is not using the modern English sense of the word but is referring to the stagey, grandstanding, affected public religiosity of certain kinds of people. I think these passages are also asserting that the priests and Pharisees are "imposters" of a sort, pretending to have an authority which wasn't real.
Mostly these passages condemn public displays of religous fervor and performed public acts of "righeousness" (such as calling attention to how much money one had donated or how many times a day one prayed, etc.)
"Turning the other cheek" was a passive aggressive act of defiance. It's also not a violent or vindictive act to say that calling public attention to how religious you are is not particularly virtuous.
He didn't say "Hell" he said "Gehenna" (actually krisewV thV geennhV "condemnation of Gehenna") which is not the same as eternal damnation but symbolizes death.
There are actually other quotations attributed to Jesus that are more vituperative than what you cited, and if you read the gospels as being an accurate record of Jesus' words then you are correct that he's inconsistent.

However, to paraphrase Yogi Berra, Jesus didn't really say most of the stuff he said and I think that the earliest strata of the common sayngs tradition (regardless of whether they stem from an HJ) are more or less philosophically consistent..

French Prometheus

You forgot the conclusion of the Parable of the Minas (Luke 19:27) :
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

You may want to check this old thread of mine :
Jesus, the epitome of tolerance? I think not...

Jagella

What really puzzles me about all these translation errors in the Bible is that they never seem to get corrected. Again and again I’m reading the Bible then quoting it only to be corrected that what I read is wrong. So why not make the necessary corrections so as not to confuse us?

As you might imagine, some Jews object to these characterizations of the Pharisees as being “imposters� or “sanctimonious.� We need to remember that the enemies of the Jewish priests wrote the gospel accounts, and therefore we are reading very biased accounts of the Pharisees.

Again, we must ask if the Pharisees really acted that way. Even if they did, Jesus’ own teachings hardly resulted in less hypocrisy.

I’m really confused now. Jesus didn’t say “hell�? I could have sworn that Matthew 23:33 says h-e-l-l. Maybe I’m dyslexic.

Jagella

Jagella

I’m very familiar with that passage. I remember as a Christian I was so bemused by these strange sayings of Jesus. At that time I interpreted such odd pronouncements as being a result of Jesus’ divinity. After all, we cannot expect God to act and talk like we, can we? However, since I lost my faith I now realize that the New Testament writers may have created Jesus, or if Jesus was a real person, then they no doubt put words in his mouth. I suppose the violence in Luke 19:27 and other passages was meant to use a certain amount of intimidation to get people to believe and obey. In other words, if nice talk about heaven and love doesn’t snag people, then try hate and violence.

I like your quip about Matthew 10:34. I thought of that myself: The only accurate prophecy Jesus may have uttered is that he would indeed “bring a sword� to the world. Jesus is hardly a “prince of peace.�

Jagella

Diogenes the Cynic

What are you asking me for? I didn't make the translations, I'm just telling you what the Greeks says.
Sure they are. So what? How does that change the intention of the text. I'm telling you what "hypocrite" meant in context. Whether that characterization is accurate is not relevant to the translation.
Some Pharisees probably did act that way.

No, Jesus' teachings did not result in less hypocrisy.
Maybe you should just learn Greek. "Hell" is a mistranslation. The word in Greek is gehenna ("valley of Hinnon"). Gehenna was (and is) a real valley southwest of Jerusalem. It was used as a garbage dump and disposal site for animal carcasses. On occassion, the bodies of human criminals were discarded there too. People kept a lot of fires going there to try to destroy the rotting carcasses and keep the stench down.

In addition to all of this, Gehenna was also thought to have been a site for human sacrifice by ancient Canaanites and accordingly was thought to be cursed by God.

There was some folk tradition that on judgement day, those who were judged unrighteous would be cast into the flames of Gehenna and annihilated. Gehenna also seems to have been a figurative way to refer to death.

Gehenna was literally, a God-forsaken, fiery pit that you didn't want to get tossed into when you died.

What it was NOT was an otherworldly site of eternal torment ala Dante.

Jagella

My question was rhetorical—at least for you it was rhetorical.

Maybe I would learn Greek if I wasn’t already trying to learn Microsoft Office to get certified. There’s only so many hours in a day! Moreover, many people can read Greek yet they still don’t agree as to what many words in the Bible mean. It’s a very confusing book.

In this case we are encountering a belief that later evolved into a tenet that involves a “lake of fire� used by a wrathful God to torture unbelievers.

Dante and other Christians of his day interpreted the teachings of Jesus as well as other writings in the New Testament to mean that hell was a place of fiery punishment for “sinners.� Like many other interpretations, it cannot be proved wrong. When I was a born-again Christian, I was taught basically what Dante wrote about in his Inferno albeit without the “levels� of punishment.

Jagella

Diogenes the Cynic

That is very true in some cases but not this one. There is only one meaning for Gehenna and it doesn't mean "Hell." No 1st century Palestinan Jew had ever heard of Christian "Hell." It hadn't been invented yet.
So what? What does that have to do with the meaning of Gehenna as it is used in Matthew?
Sure it can. It's a mistranslation. It can be proven wrong just by understanding the Greek that it was written in. "Hell" is nowhere to be found in the Bible.
Dante made it up. It had no Biblical basis.

Javaman

The "Lake of Fire" is a very common Christian concept. It is taught in many denominations so I can understand the questioning. See This page but perhaps don't see it for long as there are inaccuracies.

Lógos Sokratikós

Jagella, I love you. I have been on a lifelong search for the one true love. I have found it at last -snif- -snif-...

:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

:thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: