Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Vorkosigan · 01-09-2006, 05:50 AM

Jim West at Bib Studies notes:

The historian David Starkey is to present a controversial debate series of
five 15-minute weekly programmes on BBC Radio 4 with the title "Who Killed
Christianity?". His thesis is that the following five people (one per
programme) have deformed Christianity: Paul, Constantine, Martin Luther,
Isaac Newton and John Paul II.

The first programme will be tomorrow, Tuesday at 9:30 a.m. British time. It
is entitled "The good news of Jesus. The bad news of St Paul.".

It should be possible to hear each programme online for a period of seven
days after the broadcast via:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio

Toto · 01-09-2006, 11:49 AM

Interesting list, and it doesn't even include Pat Robertson.

I suspect this will be another romantic claim that the true Jesus was pure and wonderful, but his message was corrupted by his followers.

David Starkey "Notorious Historian and Constitutional Expert," however, is an expert in Tudor England, not early Christian history - and is a media personality who "did stand-up comedy as a Cambridge undergraduate and appears to have lost little of his touch."

From here

Quote:

Dr Starkey is 'out' and glad to be gay. Few in his young audience could have known this, but for those that did it came as no surprise when he suggested that many of the men behind the modern monarchy, the Victorian and Edwardian architects of pomp and circumstance, were gay.

'The great spin doctors who invented the modern monarchy with its pageant and commitment to family values were gay or suppressed homosexuals. Reginald Brett, Viscount Esher, designed military uniforms to show off men's bottoms. There was competition between regiments to have the tightest trousers.' There was a smack of early Woody Allen in the last line and it triggered more sniggering, particularly among teenage girls. The audience was indeed warming up.

And according to Wikipedia

Quote:

One newspaper called him "the rudest man in Britain". . . . .

Starkey, who is openly homosexual, is also a prominent campaigner for homosexual equality. He is also an Honorary Associate of the National Secular Society.

This could be quite interesting.

Clivedurdle · 01-09-2006, 01:23 PM

Do people like Starkey and Dawkins use IIDB for reference purposes?

Clivedurdle · 01-10-2006, 01:54 AM

Programme continually took Gospels, Acts and alleged letters of Paul at face value. What is up with historians that they do not acknowledge myth as a serious position, especially as other BBC historians - Michael Wood - In search of myths and heroes - has done a whole series about this - but interestingly has not yet given the NT the treatment he gave Shangrila, Jason, Sheba, and Arthur!

With reference to Sheba:

Quote:

"I'd be very careful about historical kernels if I were you" said Yair Zakovitch with a twinkle in his eye. "The whole story sounds very much like a fairy tale to me."

mikem · 01-10-2006, 02:03 AM

Disappointing. David Starkey in debate with 2 NT scholars for 15 minutes. It's simply not long enough for a debate of any substance really. I can't figure out why it should be only 15 minutes. Mind you it is the BBC, which is funded by the tax payer so I don't suppose they want to get too controversial.

Clivedurdle · 01-10-2006, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikem

Disappointing. David Starkey in debate with 2 NT scholars for 15 minutes. It's simply not long enough for a debate of any substance really. I can't figure out why it should be only 15 minutes. Mind you it is the BBC, which is funded by the tax payer so I don't suppose they want to get too controversial.

BBC has recently had some major governance issues! Reporting, wmd...

All organisations must be transparent, open, honest. What is it with this sin of ommission of continually ignoring this elephant in the room of myth?

Helpmabob · 01-10-2006, 03:34 AM

With a title like that, they're going off on a tangent before they've even started. The clue is in the name - christianity. Christians follow Christ, not man. Christ lives on.

exile · 01-10-2006, 06:07 AM

What is that supposed to mean? Christians have differring interpretations of Christ, depending on MEN to supply them - hence the multiplicity of sects
and the evolution of dogma over time.

Starkey is on the ball here - virtually all Christians owe their view of Christ to Paul, most protestants to Luther. Constantine set up the unholy alliance between Church and State. Not so sure about Newton and JP2.

Helpmabob · 01-12-2006, 02:57 AM

Hi exile -

Quote:

virtually all Christians owe their view of Christ to Paul

Quite true, but he pointed to Christ, and there was only one Christ whom we follow. You see, if it is true that Christ really rasied from the dead, then sectarianism and dogma become meaningless in the face of the enormity of the truth.

Ecrasez L'infame · 01-12-2006, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helpmabob

Hi exile - Quite true, but he pointed to Christ, and there was only one Christ whom we follow. You see, if it is true that Christ really rasied from the dead, then sectarianism and dogma become meaningless in the face of the enormity of the truth.

Enormity? Oh, perhaps you're right.

01-09-2006, 05:50 AM	#1
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	Who Killed Christianity? BBC Radio (Online!) Jim West at Bib Studies notes: The historian David Starkey is to present a controversial debate series of five 15-minute weekly programmes on BBC Radio 4 with the title "Who Killed Christianity?". His thesis is that the following five people (one per programme) have deformed Christianity: Paul, Constantine, Martin Luther, Isaac Newton and John Paul II. The first programme will be tomorrow, Tuesday at 9:30 a.m. British time. It is entitled "The good news of Jesus. The bad news of St Paul.". It should be possible to hear each programme online for a period of seven days after the broadcast via: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio

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01-09-2006, 01:23 PM	#3
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	Do people like Starkey and Dawkins use IIDB for reference purposes?

01-10-2006, 02:03 AM	#5
mikem Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: UK Posts: 278	Disappointing. David Starkey in debate with 2 NT scholars for 15 minutes. It's simply not long enough for a debate of any substance really. I can't figure out why it should be only 15 minutes. Mind you it is the BBC, which is funded by the tax payer so I don't suppose they want to get too controversial.

01-10-2006, 03:34 AM	#7
Helpmabob Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: UK Posts: 431	With a title like that, they're going off on a tangent before they've even started. The clue is in the name - christianity. Christians follow Christ, not man. Christ lives on.

01-10-2006, 06:07 AM	#8
exile Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: England Posts: 735	What is that supposed to mean? Christians have differring interpretations of Christ, depending on MEN to supply them - hence the multiplicity of sects and the evolution of dogma over time. Starkey is on the ball here - virtually all Christians owe their view of Christ to Paul, most protestants to Luther. Constantine set up the unholy alliance between Church and State. Not so sure about Newton and JP2.

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