Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jayrok · 04-27-2010, 05:34 AM

Acts 6 and 7 describe the seizure and stoning of Stephen. He was taken before the Sanhedrin and questioned by the high priest (Acts 7:1). Stephen then gives his speech about Joseph and Moses, etc. Those who seized him were furious at his comments and accused him of blasphemy.

Stephen claimed he saw the heavens open and that he saw Jesus standing at the right hand of God. This pushed them over the edge and they took him out of the city and stoned him.

If Stephen was charged with blasphemy and could be taken out of the city and stoned... why couldn't Jesus (also charged with blasphemy by the Jews) also be taken out of the city and stoned?

Why did the Jews say they couldn't enforce the death penalty when it was in their law to stone blasphemers to death?

Why couldn't they just stone Jesus like they did Stephen?

dog-on · 04-27-2010, 06:55 AM

Maybe they just forgot.

mountainman · 04-27-2010, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayrok

Stephen claimed he saw the heavens open and that he saw Jesus standing at the right hand of God. This pushed them over the edge and they took him out of the city and stoned him.

You might also like to read the (Syriac) Acts of Philip, where the Jews in the synagogue at Carthage had a very similar reaction to the speech of one Ananias, a Jew, who had experienced a very rough boat trip across the Mediteranean having been bound by his big toes to the top of the mainsail by a Christian Angel. In the Acts of Philip the Jews were so pushed over the edge that they kicked him to death on the spot in the synagogue, where -- against all health regulations -- they also buried him. (Philip later resurrected Ananias, with the assistance of a sick ox)

Quote:

Why couldn't they just stone Jesus like they did Stephen?

The script writers wanted to get the Romans involved.
After all, Christianity was to become an anti-semetic Roman religion.

Jayrok · 04-27-2010, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayrok

Stephen claimed he saw the heavens open and that he saw Jesus standing at the right hand of God. This pushed them over the edge and they took him out of the city and stoned him.

You might also like to read the (Syriac) Acts of Philip, where the Jews in the synagogue at Carthage had a very similar reaction to the speech of one Ananias, a Jew, who had experienced a very rough boat trip across the Mediteranean having been bound by his big toes to the top of the mainsail by a Christian Angel. In the Acts of Philip the Jews were so pushed over the edge that they kicked him to death on the spot in the synagogue, where -- against all health regulations -- they also buried him. (Philip later resurrected Ananias, with the assistance of a sick ox)

Quote:

Why couldn't they just stone Jesus like they did Stephen?

The script writers wanted to get the Romans involved.
After all, Christianity was to become an anti-semetic Roman religion.

Thanks. I understand the angle of the script writers with the Romans, etc. I'm wondering if there is a standard explanation offered as to why Jesus' situation was so different than Stephen's that he had to be executed by the Romans as opposed to simply stoning him outside the city and burning his body or mass grave, if you will.

Huon · 04-27-2010, 08:31 AM

Stephanos means "the crowned one". Good name isn't it ? (for the first martyr of the new religion). As mountaiman said, this story is a symbol of the breaking between the traditional Jews and the group of Stephanos, the future christians.

Do we know a jewish account of this story ?

show_no_mercy · 04-27-2010, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayrok

Acts 6 and 7 describe the seizure and stoning of Stephen. He was taken before the Sanhedrin and questioned by the high priest (Acts 7:1). Stephen then gives his speech about Joseph and Moses, etc. Those who seized him were furious at his comments and accused him of blasphemy.

Stephen claimed he saw the heavens open and that he saw Jesus standing at the right hand of God. This pushed them over the edge and they took him out of the city and stoned him.

If Stephen was charged with blasphemy and could be taken out of the city and stoned... why couldn't Jesus (also charged with blasphemy by the Jews) also be taken out of the city and stoned?

Why did the Jews say they couldn't enforce the death penalty when it was in their law to stone blasphemers to death?

Why couldn't they just stone Jesus like they did Stephen?

Probably because Jesus wasn't crucified for blasphemy, but (if he even existed) was an actual insurrectionist. Jews killing Jesus is just 1st/2nd century Christian anti-Semitism.

Montgomery Scott · 04-27-2010, 09:44 AM

Maybe the story of Stephen has been grossly misinterpreted. The real story was that he got a hold of some Lebanese Blond Hash and fell into a hole. The Romans stole his dope and left him to rot.

End of story.

Next time, Saul's trip to Damascus on 5 hits of Orange Sunshine.

Elijah · 04-27-2010, 10:31 AM

You need a major majority of the crowds' support to get them to stone someone and with Jesus the crowds were following him thinking he could be the messiah so it would be necessary for the religious authority to turn the people against him with trying to get him to blasphemy. As ShowNoMercy pointed out it could be that they just couldn't get him to blasphemy but I think it has more to do with the support of the people Jesus had during his life that Stephen didn't after his death that made it easier to get rid of him.

show_no_mercy · 04-27-2010, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elijah

You need a major majority of the crowds' support to get them to stone someone and with Jesus the crowds were following him thinking he could be the messiah so it would be necessary for the religious authority to turn the people against him with trying to get him to blasphemy. As ShowNoMercy pointed out it could be that they just couldn't get him to blasphemy but I think it has more to do with the support of the people Jesus had during his life that Stephen didn't after his death that made it easier to get rid of him.

The crowd wanted Jesus dead and wanted BarAbba released.

Toto · 04-27-2010, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elijah

You need a major majority of the crowds' support to get them to stone someone and with Jesus the crowds were following him thinking he could be the messiah so it would be necessary for the religious authority to turn the people against him with trying to get him to blasphemy. As ShowNoMercy pointed out it could be that they just couldn't get him to blasphemy but I think it has more to do with the support of the people Jesus had during his life that Stephen didn't after his death that made it easier to get rid of him.

This is an interesting theory, except that those rent-a-crowds in the gospels could turn on a dime. They endorsed Pilate's decision to execute Jesus and wanted BarAbbas to be released instead. A crowd was ready to stone a woman for adultery, until Jesus pointed out their own hypocrisy.

All of these instances of stoning were probably literary fiction.

Stoning#Stoning_in_Judaism_and_Christianity

Quote:

As manifest also in Jewish sources contemporary with and prior to early Christianity, particularly the Mishnah, doubts were growing in Jewish society about the morality of capital punishment in general and stoning in particular. For example, according to Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel in the time when the religious courts had authority over capital punishment, a court that executed more than 1 person in 70 years was a "bloody court".

Saint_Stephen

Quote:

The fact that Stephen appears from nowhere, is sentenced to death in an emotional public trial without Romans interfering at all and is then altogether forgotten as if nothing happened, is already suspicious, but both his and James' trials also share a great deal of similarities. For example, according to Eusebius, James the Just said this as his last defence before taken to be stoned:^[2]

"Why ask ye me concerning Jesus the Son of man? He Himself sitteth in heaven, at the right hand of the Great Power, and shall come on the clouds of heaven."

which compares to Stephen's words, his last defence as well:^[3]

But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. "Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God."

As their last words, both James and Stephen ask for forgiveness to their executioners.

Mention of the Province of Cilicia at Acts 6:9 seems to indicate that Stephen's story is written at least a decade after the death of James the Just. The Roman province by that name had been on hiatus from 27 BC and re-established by Emperor Vespasian only in 72 CE.[4]

The question is whether the stoning of James as described in Josephus is also fictional.

04-27-2010, 05:34 AM	#1
Jayrok Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: USA Posts: 471	The Stoning of Stephen Acts 6 and 7 describe the seizure and stoning of Stephen. He was taken before the Sanhedrin and questioned by the high priest (Acts 7:1). Stephen then gives his speech about Joseph and Moses, etc. Those who seized him were furious at his comments and accused him of blasphemy. Stephen claimed he saw the heavens open and that he saw Jesus standing at the right hand of God. This pushed them over the edge and they took him out of the city and stoned him. If Stephen was charged with blasphemy and could be taken out of the city and stoned... why couldn't Jesus (also charged with blasphemy by the Jews) also be taken out of the city and stoned? Why did the Jews say they couldn't enforce the death penalty when it was in their law to stone blasphemers to death? Why couldn't they just stone Jesus like they did Stephen?

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

04-27-2010, 06:55 AM	#2
dog-on Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 3,397	Maybe they just forgot.

04-27-2010, 08:31 AM	#5
Huon Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bordeaux France Posts: 2,796	Stephanos means "the crowned one". Good name isn't it ? (for the first martyr of the new religion). As mountaiman said, this story is a symbol of the breaking between the traditional Jews and the group of Stephanos, the future christians. Do we know a jewish account of this story ?

04-27-2010, 09:44 AM	#7
Montgomery Scott Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Earth Posts: 2,770	Maybe the story of Stephen has been grossly misinterpreted. The real story was that he got a hold of some Lebanese Blond Hash and fell into a hole. The Romans stole his dope and left him to rot. End of story. Next time, Saul's trip to Damascus on 5 hits of Orange Sunshine.

04-27-2010, 10:31 AM	#8
Elijah Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: MidWest Posts: 1,894	You need a major majority of the crowds' support to get them to stone someone and with Jesus the crowds were following him thinking he could be the messiah so it would be necessary for the religious authority to turn the people against him with trying to get him to blasphemy. As ShowNoMercy pointed out it could be that they just couldn't get him to blasphemy but I think it has more to do with the support of the people Jesus had during his life that Stephen didn't after his death that made it easier to get rid of him.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.