FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Today at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-04-2004, 04:39 PM   #11
Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: North West usa
Posts: 10,245
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Wraith
I've eavesdropped on many a conversation (usually at work during break) regarding this subject. The basic gist of it is that the EU was predicted in the Bible and is an omen of the end of the world. I'm pretty sure everyone here's somewhat familiar with it. Being an atheist I of course dismiss it as total BS. However, sometimes I get sick of hearing it and want to confront these dummkopfs. So does anyone have material regarding how to debunk this whole "The EU is a portent of the End Times(TM)" nonsense?
There are allusions to the same within Rev. as well. If I remember my apocalypse right, one of the views of the areas encompassing the 10 horns has to do with all the bad boys that surround Israel from it's history. Europe is only a small part of that. So the EU theory is just another game by wannabe's. Rev. is so vague and chalk full of allegories that people can use to come to whatever conclusion they want to. And they do. So most attempts at "what does it really say" is almost fruitless. Hey, isn't the EU going to 25 now? So I guess they will have to restructure their fantasies. Though I guess some ideas can be considered more laughable than others...

Rev 13:1 And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. 2 The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. 3 One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast. 4 Men worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, "Who is like the beast? Who can make war against him?"

People have made all sorts of definitions of the lion, bear and leopard in Daniel, Ezekiel, and Jeremiah. One of the best books I ever read on this (in my other fantasy life) was this Jewish rabbi who converted to xianity. I wish I could remember his name...He was very good at staying consistent and following rules for allegory vice a current statement within the Bible. He was one of the few who I thought made reasonable attempts at analysis. Daniel 7 and 8 have much on the kingdoms as well...

Da 7:1 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon, Daniel had a dream, and visions passed through his mind as he was lying on his bed. He wrote down the substance of his dream. 2 Daniel said: "In my vision at night I looked, and there before me were the four winds of heaven churning up the great sea. 3 Four great beasts, each different from the others, came up out of the sea. 4 "The first was like a lion, and it had the wings of an eagle. I watched until its wings were torn off and it was lifted from the ground so that it stood on two feet like a man, and the heart of a man was given to it. 5 "And there before me was a second beast, which looked like a bear. It was raised up on one of its sides, and it had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. It was told, ‘Get up and eat your fill of flesh!’ 6 "After that, I looked, and there before me was another beast, one that looked like a leopard. And on its back it had four wings like those of a bird. This beast had four heads, and it was given authority to rule. 7 "After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast—terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns.

The lion is sometimes labeled from this verse as well:
Ezek 32:2 "Son of man, take up a lament concerning Pharaoh king of Egypt and say to him: "'You are like a lion among the nations; you are like a monster in the seas thrashing about in your streams, churning the water with your feet and muddying the streams.

Then again, lots of others read Da 8 to get the lion to mean the Alexandrian empire, that breaks into others. But then again Judah is also referred to as "lion" in Ge 49...on and on it goes.

Personally I would recommend staying out of a fundy revelations/prophecy debate. It's rather pointless when most Xians can't even begin to understand it.

Edited to add: I forgot to mention that often the leopard is interpreted to be England, of France, of Germany, and Spain and others. I don't remember the why's of the claim at the moment.

DK
funinspace is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:57 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.