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Old 03-20-2008, 07:00 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson View Post
Thanks for once again riding your hobby horse in a thread which has nothing to do with it.
The rider of a hobby horse probably thinks of himself as the cavalry.



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Old 03-20-2008, 08:13 AM   #72
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Geez Clive, some of us bibbers require direction and guidance!:huh:
It's just that there are an awful lot of sheep - lambs and rams, being used in all sorts of traditions and ritual and stories in the gospels and art work and as the symbol of the lamb that died for the sins of the world, and to me it looks like the sheep led to the Jesus, not that these are metaphors.
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:56 AM   #73
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Britannica is fascinating

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Mystery religions and Christianity

Christianity originated during the time of the Roman Empire, which was also the time at which the mysteries reached their height of popularity. This was by no means an accident.



The Christian theologian Origen wrote in the 3rd century that it was part of the divine plan that Christ was born under the emperor Augustus: the whole Mediterranean world was united by the Romans, and the conditions for missionary work were more favourable than ever before.



The simultaneousness of the propagation of the mystery religions and of Christianity and the striking similarities between them, however, demand some explanation of their relationship. The hypothesis of a mutual dependence has been proposed by scholars—especially a dependence of Christianity upon the mysteries—but such theories have been discarded.


The similarities must rather be explained by parallel developments from similar origins. In both cases, national religions of a ritualistic type were transformed, and the transformation followed similar lines: from national to ecumenical religion, from ritualistic ceremonies and taboos to spiritual doctrines set down in books, from the idea of inherited tradition to the idea of revelation. The parallel development was fostered by the new conditions prevailing in the Roman Empire, in which the old political units were dissolved, and the whole civilized world was ruled by one monarch.


People were free to move from one country to another and became cosmopolitan. The ideas of Greek philosophy penetrated everywhere in this society. Thus, under identical conditions, new forms of religious communities sprang from similar roots.



The mystery religions and Christianity had many similar features—e.g., a time of preparation before initiation and periods of fasting; baptism and banquets; vigils and early-morning ceremonies; pilgrimages and new names for the initiates. The purity demanded in the worship of Sol and in the Chaldean fire rites was similar to Christian standards. The first Christian communities resembled the mystery communities in big cities and seaports by providing social security and the feeling of brotherhood.



In the Christian congregations of the first two centuries, the variety of rites and creeds was almost as great as in the mystery communities; few of the early Christian congregations could have been called orthodox according to later standards.



The date of Christmas was purposely fixed on December 25 to push into the background the great festival of the sun god, and Epiphany on January 6 to supplant an Egyptian festival of the same day. The Easter ceremonies rivalled the pagan spring festivals.



The religious art of the Christians continued the pagan art of the preceding generations. The Christian representations of the Madonna and child are clearly the continuation of the representations of Isis and her son suckling her breast. The statue of the Good Shepherd carrying his lost sheep and the pastoral themes on Christian sarcophagi were also taken over from pagan craftsmanship.


In theology the differences between early Christians, Gnostics (members—often Christian—of dualistic sects of the 2nd century AD), and pagan Hermetists were slight. In the large Gnostic library discovered at NajʿḤammādī, in upper Egypt, in 1945, Hermetic writings were found sideby-side with Christian Gnostic texts.



The doctrine of the soul taught in Gnostic communities was almost identical to that taught in the mysteries: the soul emanated from the Father, fell into the body, and had to return to its former home. The Greeks interpreted the national religions of the Greek Orient chiefly in terms of Plato’s philosophical and religious concepts. Interpretation in Platonic concepts was also the means by which the Judeo-Christian set of creeds was thoroughly assimilated to Greek ideas by the early Christian thinkers Clement of Alexandria and Origen.



Thus, the religions had a common conceptual framework. The doctrinal similarity is exemplified in the case of the pagan writer and philosopher Synesius. The people of Cyrene selected him as the most able man of the city to be their bishop, and he was able to accept the election without sacrificing his intellectual honesty. In his pagan period he wrote hymns that closely follow the fire theology of the Chaldean Oracles; later he wrote hymns to Christ. The doctrine is almost identical.


The similarity of the religious vocabulary is also great. Greek life was characterized by such things as democratic institutions, seafaring, gymnasium and athletic games, theatre, and philosophy. The mystery religions adopted many expressions from these domains: they spoke of the assembly (ekklēsia) of the mystai; the voyage of life; the ship, the anchor, and the port of religion; and the wreath of the initiate; life was a stage and man the actor. The Christians took over the entire terminology; but many pagan words were strangely twisted in order to fit into the Christian world: the service of the state (leitourgia) became the ritual, or liturgy, of the church; the decree of the assembly and the opinions of the philosophers (dogma) became the fixed doctrine of Christianity; the correct opinion (orthē doxa) about things became orthodoxy.


There are also great differences between Christianity and the mysteries. Mystery religions, as a rule, can be traced back to tribal origins, Christianity to a historical person.
http://www.britannica.com/bps/home#t...20Encyclopedia
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Old 03-20-2008, 12:04 PM   #74
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Early Christian art also called Paleo-christian Art, or Primitive Christian Art,

Main

architecture, painting, and sculpture from the beginnings of Christianity until about the early 6th century, particularly the art of Italy and the western Mediterranean. (Early Christian art in the eastern part of the Roman Empire is usually considered to be part of Byzantine art; q.v.) The Christian religion was part of a general trend in the late Roman Empire toward mysticism and spirituality. As Christianity developed, its art reflected the prevailing late antique artistic climate. Except for differences in subject matter, Christian and pagan works looked much the same; in fact, it is possible to show that the same workshop sometimes produced sculpture for both Christian and non-Christian purposes.
The earliest identifiably Christian art consists of a few 2nd-century wall and ceiling paintings in the Roman catacombs (underground burial chambers), which continued to be decorated in a sketchy style derived from Roman impressionism through the 4th century. They provide an important record of some aspects of the development of Christian subject matter. The earliest Christian iconography tended to be symbolic. A simple rendering of a fish was sufficient to allude to Christ. Bread and wine invoked the Eucharist. During the 3rd and 4th centuries, in the catacomb paintings and in other manifestations, Christians began to adapt familiar pagan prototypes to new meanings. The early figural representations of Christ, for instance, most often show him as the good shepherd by directly borrowing from a classical prototype. He was also sometimes depicted in the guise of familiar gods or heroes, such as Apollo or Orpheus. Only later, when the religion itself had achieved some measure of earthly power, did he take on more exalted attributes. Narratives tended at first to be typological, often suggesting parallels between the Old and New Testaments. The earliest scenes from the life of Christ to be depicted were the miracles. The Passion, particularly the Crucifixion itself, was generally avoided until the religion was well established.

http://www.britannica.com/bps/topic/...20Encyclopedia

Maybe if we dump the historical Jesus a huge amount of pieces fall into place logically - for example understanding xianity as a natural phenomenon of this period.
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