stephan huller

http://www.scribd.com/doc/72423334/T...ius-of-Salamis

mountainman

Thanks.

What a quagmire of heresiology this is.

Epiphanius appears as a basket case.

He was not alone.

Augustine also listed 80-90 heresies.

What was happening in the 4th/5th centuries?

Certain people were strenuously objecting to the official version of Jesus Story.

Why?

tanya

Thank you, Stephan, for drawing this very well written book, to our attention. Frank Williams has done a very decent job, in my opinion.

Here is from his introduction:
Condensed form of Epiphanius' table of contents:

Here is from the Panarion, pages 169-70 of Frank Williams text:

Four comments:

1. Single copy of the "original" manuscript, age? Where located? found when? Copied when?

2. Mani is hardly mentioned, and warrants no separate heading, in the table of contents; Does not seem, from Epiphanius' account, that Mani's influence in late fourth century Roman empire was especially profound....

3. Notice the pejorative term, "Marcionite", in Williams text. The original Greek, however, uses "Marcionist", not "...ite". The distinction is important. The use of "ite", rather than "ist", was meant to discredit political factions within the Marxist movement of the 19th and early 20th centuries. I believe, from memory, can't bring up a reference at the moment, that Marx himself, used "ite" as a means of belittling those who disagreed with him.

Certainly, the most famous "ite", had been applied by Stalin, and his cothinkers, to the followers of Trotsky. The orthodox Stalinists remained pure "Leninists", while the followers of Trotsky were "Trotskyites"

We ought not, in my opinion, continue to write Marcionite, as if Marcion were, a priori, defective, deformed, and hopelessly inadequate, if not dangerously psychotic, as "ite" implies. We should stick to translating the original Greek, correctly. Marcionists, doesn't roll off the tongue, but that's a problem of English phonemic structure, not political science.

4. Paul, the apostle, was pleased to be called a Nazorean....

a. I think spin and/or Roger, and/or Andrew, had a well written discussion about this name, and Nazareth, perhaps in the archives, now. I read it about six months ago, but it is already gone from my consciousness. Sorry not to have a link, it was well written, as I recall....

b. Apart from the name, what I find interesting is the idea that Paul would have been identified with a sect that did not originate until mid second century.

Thanks again, Stephan, well done.

James The Least

This is great. The print version sells for hundreds of dollars, so I'm sure this is the only way most of us could access this book.

tanya

There are a few differences between the Greek text, and this new English version.

This text is noteworthy for highlighting the distinction made by the fourth century author, between Nazareth, Nazoreans, and Nasoreans.

The point made, that "Nazoreans" were synonymous with "Christians", and that "Paul" was proud to be a Nazorean, suggests that in the 4th century, "Paul" was thought to have existed at the time of the Nazoreans, a sect, (he uses the term "heresy") defined by Epiphanius.

mountainman

Epiphanius on the gnostics:



Gaffe

Duvduv

For every difficult doctrinal point the heresiologists could invent the earlier existence of some "heresy". Thereby "proving" the truth of the orthodox ideology by forcing obedience to certain dogma through heresying (is that a word?) any alternative.

Roger Pearse

See Karl Holl, Die handschriftliche Überlieferung des Epiphanius (TU 36.2; Leipzig: Hinrich's, 1910): 1–98, for discussion of the manuscripts of Epiphanius.

http://archive.org/details/texteunduntersuc36akad

tanya

Hi Roger,

Many thanks for that useful link to the century old German/Latin edition. It would appear to represent a commentary on the Panarion (and Ancoratus). I believe that Holl's component of this manuscript begins on page 192/646.

I found it somewhat easier to search this book, to locate the pertinant parts of Holl's commentary, in the text for which you provided a link.

I am interested in learning how Epiphanius explains Paul's membership in the "heresy" (sect) of "Nazoreans" (band 1, pages 333 to 382)

Roger Pearse

It's actually a volume on the transmission of the text of the Panarion and Ancoratus; what manuscripts, and how they are related. But I have been through it and written a list of the manuscripts of the Panarion, which is here:

http://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/?p=8810

All the best,

Roger Pearse