Freethought & Rationalism Archive

jackrabbit · 01-11-2006, 10:02 AM

After looking at the http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/ site, I have become fascinated with some of the alternative stuff, and have been wondering how the canonization process worked. I grew up as a x-ian (against my will), but was barely aware of things like this. x-ians tend to concentrate on the bible itself, not trying to figure out where it came from, or most specifically whether it was assembled correctly or not. Though I did know that the catholic bible was different. I think the preacher man referred to those books as "false epistles" or something like that.

Yeah, yeah, the bible is supposedly "inspired", but what about those who selected which books would be in it? If they were not also "inspired", wouldn't there be the possibility that at least some of the inspired books would be tossed and some non-inspired books would be included?

Who actually did the canonization? What criteria did they use?

I can kind of see why The Gospel of Infancy Thomas was not included:

Quote:

1 I, Thomas the Israelite, am reporting to you, all my non-Jewish brothers and sisters, to make known the extraordinary childhood deeds of our Lord Jesus Christ - what he did after his birth in my region. This is how it all started:

2 When this boy, Jesus, was five years old, he was playing at the ford of a rushing stream. (2) He was collecting the flowing water into ponds and made the water instantly pure. He did this with a single command. (3) He then made soft clay and shaped it into twelve sparrows. He did this on the sabbath day, and many other boys were playing with him.
(4)But when a Jew saw what Jesus was doing while playing on the sabbath day, he immediately went off and told Joseph, Jesus' father: "See here, your boy is at the ford and has taken mud and fashioned twelve birds with it, and so has violated the sabbath."
(5)So Joseph went there, and as soon as he spotted him he shouted, "Why are you doing what's not permitted on the sabbath?"
(6)But Jesus simply clapped his hands and shouted to the sparrows: "Be off, fly away, and remembe' me, you who are now alive!" And the sparrows took off and flew away noisily.
(7)The Jews watched with amazement, then left the scene to report to their leaders what they had seen Jesus doing.

3 The son of Annas the scholar, standing there with Jesus, took a willow branch and drained the water Jesus had collected. (2)Jesus, however, saw what had happened and became angry, saying to him, "Damn you, you irreverent fool! What harm did the ponds of water do to you? From this moment you, too, will dry up like a tree, and you'll never produce leaves or root or bear fruit."
(3) In an instant the boy had completely withered away. Then Jesus departed and left for the house of Joseph. (4)The parents of the boy who had withered away picked him up and were carrying him out, sad because he was so young. And they came to Joseph and accused him: "It's your fault - your boy did this."

4 Later he was going through the village again when a boy ran and bumped him on the shoulder. Jesus got angry and said to him, "You won't continue your journey." (2)And all of a sudden, he fell down and died.
(3)Some people saw what had happened and said, "Where has this boy come from? Everything he says happens instantly!"
(4)The parents of the dead boy came to Joseph and blamed him saying, "Because you have such a boy, you can't live with us in the village, or else teach him to bless and not curse. He's killing our children!"

5 So Joseph summoned his child and admonished him in private, saying, "Why are you doing all this? These people are suffering and so they hate and harass us." (2)Jesus said, "I know that these are not your words, still, I'll keep quiet for your sake. But those people must take their punishment." There and then his accusers became blind.
(3)Those who saw this became very fearful and at a loss. All they could say was, "Every word he says, whether good or bad, has became a deed - a miracle even!" (4)When Joseph saw that Jesus had done such a thing, he got angry and grabbed his ear and pulled very hard. (5)The bot became infuriated with him and replied, "It's one thing for you to seek and not find; it's quite another for you to act this unwisely. (6)Don't you know that I don't really belong to you? Don't make me upset."

I mean, holy shit, here baby Jeebus is killing half the village and blinding the rest just for the fun of it. Some Prince of Peace. Sure, he's only five years old, but fuck, wouldn't daddy god have put a throttle on his magic powers until he was old enough to use them wisely? Kind of irresponsible to give a five year old the power of life and death.

On the other hand, maybe this is one of the "inspired" books and therefore true. It's just as plausible as and has just as much proof as any of the other books, including those that got accepted.

Amaleq13 · 01-11-2006, 10:26 AM

You might want to check out Richard Carrier's article:

Formation of the New Testament Canon

Murmur · 01-11-2006, 10:35 AM

It struck me as amusing that so many Christians got upset with the little coloured marbles used to vote on saying in the Bible by the 'Jesus Seminar' when this is more or less the same thing that a lot of these early Christian councils used as well. :banghead:

murmurmurmur

rationalOne · 01-11-2006, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackrabbit

After looking at the http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/ site, I have become fascinated with some of the alternative stuff, and have been wondering how the canonization process worked.

Thanks for that link, I've been looking for information on this topic.

I understand that Anne Rice used one of the lesser known books telling of Jesus' early life in her latest novel.

jackrabbit · 01-11-2006, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

You might want to check out Richard Carrier's article:

Formation of the New Testament Canon

Wow, it is a hundred times more complicated than I thought. No wonder the bible is such chaos. Sounds like there must have been a shitload of "inspired" people involved to come up with the "inerrent" bible.

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01-11-2006, 10:26 AM	#2
Amaleq13 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Eagle River, Alaska Posts: 7,816	You might want to check out Richard Carrier's article: Formation of the New Testament Canon

01-11-2006, 10:35 AM	#3
Murmur Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: The abyss Posts: 287	It struck me as amusing that so many Christians got upset with the little coloured marbles used to vote on saying in the Bible by the 'Jesus Seminar' when this is more or less the same thing that a lot of these early Christian councils used as well. :banghead: murmurmurmur

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