Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Magus55 · 07-14-2005, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooboy !!

Sodium,

Thanks for your reply, but... my question was pretty much rhetorical. I know the answer to my own question, well... what I mean is... I know the JW answer to the question. Very well even.

I am wondering where you got your information from. One nit-pick...

The "new Jerusalem" is God's new kingdom here on earth, with Jesus and the 144,000 as the rulers. Jesus as king. This blending of heaven and earth is not really very well explained.

I think you have a false understanding of the 144,000. The 144,000 are male Jews who are marked by God to be protected during the Tribulation. They serve as witnesses for God to those who are in the Tribulation. Following the Tribulation is the Millenium Kingdom where Christ rules over the survivors of the Tribulation for 1000 years. Following the MK, God destroys the current Earth and creates the new Earth and Jerusalem ( basically Heaven on Earth).

Hooboy !! · 07-14-2005, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magus55

I think you have a false understanding of the 144,000. The 144,000 are male Jews who are marked by God to be protected during the Tribulation. They serve as witnesses for God to those who are in the Tribulation. Following the Tribulation is the Millenium Kingdom where Christ rules over the survivors of the Tribulation for 1000 years. Following the MK, God destroys the current Earth and creates the new Earth and Jerusalem ( basically Heaven on Earth).

Well, consdiering I was a JW for 20 years, I am pretty confident that I am right. However, that is an interesting perspective. What are your sources?

FWIW. The literal translation is that 12,000 male Jews from each of the original 12 tribes of Israel would be selected. This created a huge problem though for Christianity after it was determined that salvation was available to gentiles too. Not to mention the clearly misogynist attitude. For example, my mother-in-law partakes of the "body" and "blood" of Christ at passover and considers herself part of the 144,000. I'm pretty sure she isn't a male Jew.

hughmcjr · 07-14-2005, 02:56 PM

The 144k are jews and are already spoken for, the JW's are out of luck. It was OT belief.

Thomas II · 07-14-2005, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooboy !!

Well, consdiering I was a JW for 20 years, I am pretty confident that I am right. However, that is an interesting perspective. What are your sources?

FWIW. The literal translation is that 12,000 male Jews from each of the original 12 tribes of Israel would be selected. This created a huge problem though for Christianity after it was determined that salvation was available to gentiles too. Not to mention the clearly misogynist attitude. For example, my mother-in-law partakes of the "body" and "blood" of Christ at passover and considers herself part of the 144,000. I'm pretty sure she isn't a male Jew.

Was this ever a problem of space, as in lack of room??

Besides, it is a well known fact that at the time of the rapture every woman will become Barbra Streisand...Papa, can you see them?

Hooboy !! · 07-14-2005, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas II

Was this ever a problem of space, as in lack of room??

Besides, it is a well known fact that at the time of the rapture every woman will become Barbra Streisand...Papa, can you see them?

LOL

yea, Jesus was going to have a parliment of 144,000 to help him rule.

If He were God, why in fucks name would He need a fucking parliment?

The whole concept is ludicrous. But, I have always been fascinated with the numerology aspect of the JW. Considering that back in the 70's, I was absolutely convinced that when Armageddon came, I was going to die because I was spanking the monkey. That's a tough row to hoe when your're 13.

Magus55 · 07-14-2005, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooboy !!

Well, consdiering I was a JW for 20 years, I am pretty confident that I am right. However, that is an interesting perspective. What are your sources?

FWIW. The literal translation is that 12,000 male Jews from each of the original 12 tribes of Israel would be selected. This created a huge problem though for Christianity after it was determined that salvation was available to gentiles too. Not to mention the clearly misogynist attitude. For example, my mother-in-law partakes of the "body" and "blood" of Christ at passover and considers herself part of the 144,000. I'm pretty sure she isn't a male Jew.

The 144,000 are Jews. Why would JW's assume that its referring to them being saved? No gentiles are included in the 144,000.

Demigawd · 07-14-2005, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magus55

The 144,000 are Jews. Why would JW's assume that its referring to them being saved? No gentiles are included in the 144,000.

Your enthocentrism is showing. The Southern Baptists who fund "Jews for Jesus" would be proud.

Demigawd · 07-14-2005, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooboy !!

If He were God, why in fucks name would He need a fucking parliment?

Apparently, even God likes '70s funk. George Clinton and Parliament are one of the few examples of perfection in this universe. :angel: :devil3:

Demigawd · 07-14-2005, 07:03 PM

Seriously though, I would imagine the reason behind the count of 144,000 is that such a number would be as impressive to an ancient as [Doctor Evil] 100 billion [/Doctor Evil] would sound to us.

Kosh · 07-14-2005, 07:36 PM

Why only 144,000? Easy... appeal to basic human nature/psychology.

Elitism.

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07-14-2005, 02:56 PM	#13
hughmcjr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,908	The 144k are jews and are already spoken for, the JW's are out of luck. It was OT belief.

07-14-2005, 07:03 PM	#19
Demigawd Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: On a sailing ship to nowhere, leaving any place Posts: 2,254	Seriously though, I would imagine the reason behind the count of 144,000 is that such a number would be as impressive to an ancient as [Doctor Evil] 100 billion [/Doctor Evil] would sound to us.

07-14-2005, 07:36 PM	#20
Kosh Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Orions Belt Posts: 3,911	Why only 144,000? Easy... appeal to basic human nature/psychology. Elitism.

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