Freethought & Rationalism Archive

aa5874 · 03-31-2007, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by figuer

I think the Conventional Christians would burn you at the stake (if they still could), for believing this particular version of the fairy tale.

Do you mean the 'Eusebian' Christians? Because before Eusebius, I am not certain what a Conventional Christian was. And 'Eusebian' Christians did encourage burnings.

aa5874 · 03-31-2007, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larsguy47

Wake up and smell the tobacco.

I would suggest you have a talk with inerrantists of another religion, perhaps an inerrant Islamic believer, so that you will have an insight of how serious inerrantists take their beliefs.

Anyhow, although you seem to be concern about the spiritual well being of others, I think it is not certain that you will go to heaven, since God may have already looked at your DNA and have predestined you for hell, just like Easu.

Splarnst · 03-31-2007, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larsguy47

Perhaps, but some timed events and miracles are supposed to be happening that are, so now they don't have to go on faith as much, they have visible actual proof in their own lives things are happening as prophesied. Those not paying attention don't see these things.

That's what is meant by "those who have much, more will be given.." Those who already have faith will be given the miracles and direct proof of the truth. Now if the umbelievers saw the miracles happening, sure they'd believe. But instead, they don't get the extra stuff, instead what they did have, the reasonable and basics unprovable presumptions become stumbling blocks and they are cast into a darker place of disbelievability than they were before. That's why the Bible says even he who had nothing, what they had it would be taken from them. That is, God will give them deceptions to make them even more assured not to believe, while hiding the miracles. Thus the chasm between the believers and nonbelievers is widened. This is the prophesied purpose of Christ's second coming, to separate the sheep from the goats, the wheat from the weeds, etc. Those true will be isolated in a safe place, the rest will be aligned for destruction.

That's what the Bible says, anyway, but no worry if it's not actually true, right?

"They took no note until the flood came and swept them away..."

Um, what does this have to do with my original point that you quoted?

trendkill · 03-31-2007, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larsguy47

Yes, but once they hear the correct explanation then their confusion is over.

Larsguy47

Indeed. And that is why all the true believers are on the flying saucer to Heaven's Gate now, and the rest of us are left to suffer.

You must understand that, although it is a bit incommensurate with how a loving God would operate, what you have described is exactly the modus operandi of a small cult which needs an excuse to keep the rest of society at arm's length. It also explains why the credulous tend to schism rather than unite; when the believers hear an explanation, it seems correct to some and wrong to others. Each part of the group then has proof that the other part is made up of apostates, and the group splits. And so on ad infinitum.

Chris Weimer · 03-31-2007, 04:38 PM

LarsGuy - you going to address what I wrote about Matthew?

Quote:

Originally Posted by figuer

According to the OP he is playing tricks and laughing about it, to me that is trickster behavior.

The OP is not the final authority on the God of the Bible. Besides, the "trickster" has to be breaking rules when he "tricks". God here isn't tricking people. He's feeding their foolishness, leading them into further deceit. And by laughing, I don't know where the OP got that from, but that's not supported from the text.

Quote:

My "modern biases" are the only thing I have to judge a god that portrays himself as both good and timeless. So god had a different set of values in ancient times? I can very well understand what the ancients thought about these things, but how can an all good god order a genocide?

Why are you "judging" God? Why can't you instead try to understand what the ancients thought instead of making everything what you think about.

Quote:

So the archeologist that according to the OP god is deceiving, are deluded, unworthy people? So any one who disbelieves in the Bible should be considered unworthy and deserves to be further deceived?

The archaeologist? And no, not everyone who disbelieves are unworthy. You assume that God is perfectly logical and treats everyone the same. I don't think the evidence points that way.

figuer · 03-31-2007, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larsguy47

Wake up and smell the tobacco.

:rolling:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larsguy47

God looked into the womb of Rebekka and saw twins, Jacob and Esau.....So think about that. Here these two babies were not born yet and God is looking at their DNA and making choices: "Jacob I loved, Esau I hated."

So the all knowing God had to look inside the womb and at the DNA to make the choice? Does the concept of choosing between options apply to a god that allready knows the future?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larsguy47

...Anyway, if you openly reject God, he doesn't just let you walk away with you head in the air, necessarily. He sort of manipulates you to the edge of a cliff and then Jesus comes up from behind you and pushes you over! So he loves his own but hates all others.

What a wonderfull, loving god you worship!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larsguy47

But believing at the last minute isn't the same as being allowed to live under the new government..... But some who were nonbelievers all their lives will at the last minute wake up and repent and believe, then all their life of nonbelieving will not be held against them:

Contradiction?

figuer · 03-31-2007, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

The OP is not the final authority on the God of the Bible. ... And by laughing, I don't know where the OP got that from, but that's not supported from the text.

Duh...all my comments about Loki etc. reffer to the laughing "god" portrayed in the "heretic" OP (not that they aren't applicable to your "authorized" "Bible god").

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

Why are you "judging" God? Why can't you instead try to understand what the ancients thought instead of making everything what you think about.

Duh..re duh...I understand what the ancients thought, and I don't judge them. Believers are the ones that think god was behind the ethnic massacres depicted in the Bible, therefore, I must judge such a concept of god.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

The archaeologist? And no, not everyone who disbelieves are unworthy. You assume that God is perfectly logical and treats everyone the same. I don't think the evidence points that way.

So god is ilogical?

Weltall · 03-31-2007, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larsguy47

So based upon 36CE, the 70th week becomes a big deal during our day from 1947-1996. Of course, the Jews did return in 1947.
So a major, one-time chronology event happened right on time.

Only if you twist the meaning of several words past their breaking point and assume that everyone but yourself is wrong when it comes to history. Occam's Razor would like a word with you.

Chris Weimer · 03-31-2007, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by figuer

Duh...all my comments about Loki etc. reffer to the laughing "god" portrayed in the "heretic" OP (not that they aren't applicable to your "authorized" "Bible god").

Oh, sorry. I thought we were having a discussion based on Biblical evidence supporting or denying the OP's concept of what the ancients thought their God was.

Quote:

Duh..re duh...I understand what the ancients thought, and I don't judge them. Believers are the ones that think god was behind the ethnic massacres depicted in the Bible, therefore, I must judge such a concept of god.

Do all believers think that? And why must you judge such a concept of god? Do you judge everyone?

Quote:

So god is ilogical?

You'll have to specify which god exactly you're talking about. Larsguys? Or one from a particular viewpoint expressed in the Bible. Realize now that since different people wrote the Bible, they all view god just a little bit differently.

figuer · 03-31-2007, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

Do all believers think that? And why must you judge such a concept of god? Do you judge everyone?

Does not the Bible state God ordered the Hebrew invasion of Canaan and the subsequent massacres? Why shouldn't I judge any concept of god, or any other concept?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

You'll have to specify which god exactly you're talking about. Larsguys? Or one from a particular viewpoint expressed in the Bible. Realize now that since different people wrote the Bible, they all view god just a little bit differently.

I'll especify whose god exactly I am talking about; YOURS: You wrote - "You assume that God is perfectly logical"- which can only lead to the conclusion that for you he is ilogical.

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