Freethought & Rationalism Archive

bacht · 10-27-2010, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Transient

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

. . . but religion is not a social club.

That is exactly what religion is.

Any club or group activity has its overhead, its bills to pay. If you join an organized religion like Christianity at the least there are preacher salaries, maybe a building or buildings to maintain, maybe social work, etc.

Are Muslims supposed to tithe?

Chili · 10-27-2010, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Transient

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

. . . but religion is not a social club.

That is exactly what religion is.

. . . you must be a protestant then.

Chili · 10-27-2010, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

'Saint' Peter, the First 'Godfather' of the Mafia. No wonder 'ol Pete, escaping trial for extortion and murder, is said to have moved on to Rome Italy to continue and expand the 'family business'.

The transcendental 'Saint' Peter was promoted in Rome by the very real thug Damasius, who's army had fought and won a running battle in the streets of Rome with other competing thugs to see who would become Bishop of Rome, in the years after Julian's death.

In regard to tithing, I see the following commands of Jesus to his followers as related to this issue of tithing - namely: "Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's". When Caesar owned Jesus's official state church, Caesar owned the official state tithings. Jesus was a good front PR man.

Peter was the faith of Joseph the Jew, remember? the guy to whom Christ was born and it is on this faith that Rome would be built and so Peter move to Rome where Paul, who was of the same faith as Joseph became the first pope on the faith of Peter. IOW they were not 'pope and co-pope' but Paul was pope on the faith of Peter which is and always will be the Rock (read insight) on which the Church is built.

Catholicism has no tithing rules but you may be asked to pay for the seat you occupy while there. Standing is free and children go for half price, I think

.

Chili · 10-27-2010, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bacht

Quote:

Originally Posted by Transient

That is exactly what religion is.

Any club or group activity has its overhead, its bills to pay. If you join an organized religion like Christianity at the least there are preacher salaries, maybe a building or buildings to maintain, maybe social work, etc.

Are Muslims supposed to tithe?

Sry, I know nothing about Muslims tithing habits but I have yet to receive an accounting of my church donations in 40 plus years . . . while I may just be a very generous person.

Please note that in my view a gift with your name on it is not a gift at all.

Transient · 10-27-2010, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Quote:

Originally Posted by Transient

That is exactly what religion is.

. . . you must be a protestant then.

I protest - does that make me a protestant?
In my view one of the main things that seems to keep people in a particular church is the social group around them - the friends that they make.
I have been a member of many churches from protestant thru to pentecostal in the 60 years that I have been on this planet and this is what I found.
Tithing is just another doctrine thrown at people which they mostly accept because it is easier than leaving the group and possible to defend from the bible, just as much as it is possible to attack it from the bible.
In my view the social life, friends etc are a very important glue within the church fabric today.

Cege · 10-27-2010, 06:02 PM

The most important Bible verses in regard to tithing are in the OT. There are none in the NT. The "new covenant" of the NT doesn't include tithing.

braces_for_impact · 10-27-2010, 06:23 PM

Unfortunately, like many things in the bible, the issue of tithing is far from explicit, and may be interpreted - usually in the exact fashion one already believes.

But Jesus did make one very clear distinction:

Matthew 19:21

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Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me.

Matthew 6:19

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"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.

Luke 12:33

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Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys.

So, my advice would be to stop screwing around with this 10 percent bullshit and half measures and get to it!

Chili · 10-27-2010, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Transient

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

. . . you must be a protestant then.

I protest - does that make me a protestant?
In my view one of the main things that seems to keep people in a particular church is the social group around them - the friends that they make.
I have been a member of many churches from protestant thru to pentecostal in the 60 years that I have been on this planet and this is what I found.
Tithing is just another doctrine thrown at people which they mostly accept because it is easier than leaving the group and possible to defend from the bible, just as much as it is possible to attack it from the bible.
In my view the social life, friends etc are a very important glue within the church fabric today.

That may all be true but religion is not a social club and I have never seen hall, banquet or bingo room attached to the church in Catholic Europe where I am from. But then, I had never seen a protestant either.

Sheshbazzar · 10-27-2010, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Peter was the faith of Joseph the Jew, remember?

I love you Chili, but truthfully, I don't remember ever hearing this.

Atheos · 10-28-2010, 07:33 AM

Back in my preaching days I used to tell my flock that

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Under the Old Law God required the tenth part of his people in the form of tithes. But when God gave his Onlybegotten Son as a sacrifice for our sins he took away the old law, nailing it to the cross (Colossians 2:14).

Now, under the New Law, we have been given the gift most precious in the eyes of God. And now, appropriately, we no longer dedicate the last part of our time (the last day of the week), but the first. And in I Corinthians 16:1-2 on that first day of the week we are commanded to give the first part of our income to God.

So how much of your income represents "the first"? That's up to you to decide.

My impression is that the New Testament canon endorses giving everything to the church. Not just tithes.

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10-27-2010, 06:02 PM	#26
Cege Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: 36078 Posts: 849	The most important Bible verses in regard to tithing are in the OT. There are none in the NT. The "new covenant" of the NT doesn't include tithing.

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