Rusty Venture

Actually, the title says it all. Any and all help is appreciated. Thanks.

Edited to add: New Testament references are what I'm looking for. I'm really trying to convince someone that their Christian church asking for 10% of their gross paycheck is a bullshit burden no one should have to bear.

Again, thanks.

show_no_mercy

There's nothing in the NT that says you have to give 10% of your income to church leadership.

James Brown

No, nothing in the NT, just give "in keeping with your income." (I Cor. 6:2) But of course, whatever you give, don't lie about it, or you might end up dead. (Acts 5)

Tithing comes from the OT, and is one of the things that Christians have adopted from the OT while discarding all the rest. Since priests are dependent on charitable donations to the church, it's easy to imagine why they've picked this one.

Toto

What does the Bible say about Christian tithing? cites Leviticus 27:30

A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the Lord; it is holy to the Lord.

The tithing debate has some online books on this issue, and asks you to donate so you can spread the word that tithing is a false doctrine. :rolling:

As I recall, the cultwatch site is owned by - Scientology. :Cheeky::constern02:

Pyrrho

The New Testament endorses the law of the Old Testament regarding tithes in Hebrews 7, even mentioning 10% ("a tenth part of all") [emphases are added]:

1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;

2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;

3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

So all of you who have posted so far are just wrong. Live with it, and next time, don't say that something isn't there when a very simple search for the relevant word turns it up quickly (in this case, the word "tithe" in the King James Version). You can easily search the Bible online at several places, including:

http://www.bible.com/


Of course, the Bible, being bullshit, is something that should be ignored when deciding what to do, but if one were to follow it, even just the New Testament, one would tithe.



I could also have gone for the more generic endorsement of all of the laws of the Old Testament, supposedly from Jesus himself, as reported in Matthew 5:

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I might also add that it would be perverse for the laws to change anyway, as that would suggest that God was wrong before when they were originally enacted.

show_no_mercy

:huh:

It might still be applicable if everyone were farmers.

Pyrrho

One is to give 10% of what one has. If one has no money, but has a farm, then it is 10% of whatever one produces. Obviously, at no point is one to give what one does not have, so it is never specified as having to be money.

Also, you should read the whole verse that you are quoting at Matthew 23:23:

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

That is not intended as an explanation for how much one is to give, but points out that giving a tithe is not enough, and is not the most important thing that one should be doing. In other words, one does not buy one's way into heaven by giving 10% of what one has. But it also is not telling you not to tithe, and, in fact, by calling the other things "weightier", suggests that the tithe does have some "weight" to it (i.e., it is something that one should be doing). To suggest that something is less important is not to suggest that it is totally unimportant.

Sheshbazzar

Membership in the earliest New Testement church seems to have required a bit more;
.............thinly veiled extortion and murder..............
That would be quite understandable.

Let's see, a married couple seperately enter a room for a private meeting with Peter, because they did not fork over -every last cent- from the sale of their own property.
Peter's efficient 'young men' first carry out the husbands dead body and quickly bury it.
Three hours latter the wife goes in to meet with Peter, and Pete's 'young men' carry her dead body out and bury it.

Questions; where were the civil authorities?
How do you think a 'closed room murder' with a defense consisting of 'Goddidit' would stand up in a real Court of Law?

'Saint' Peter, the First 'Godfather' of the Mafia. No wonder 'ol Pete, escaping trial for extortion and murder, is said to have moved on to Rome Italy to continue and expand the 'family business'.


Sheshbazzar

Pyrrho

Acts 2:44 (for those who did not recognize what you were quoting):

And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

They were, in fact, communists*, making it rather ironic that so many U.S. Christians have been so rabidly anti-communist. But then many U.S. Christians have ignored the parts of the Bible that they find inconvenient or simply don't like.


____________________

* http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/communism



Edited to add:

Your post was evidently edited after I quoted it in its entirety for my reply.

Sheshbazzar

Sorry, using a crappy laptop that makes copying and pasting a tedious trial, I think our readers can get the point.