Crucifiction

I was debating a hardcore Protestant on another messageboard, and I brought up the fact that Christians have engaged in countless heinous activities throughout the last twenty centuries. He responded with "Well, that was the Catholics, and they're Christian in name only"; so after pointing out many examples of Protestants commiting unspeakable acts, we got into it over whether or not Catholics are Christians.

Even after I pointed out the Apostle's Creed proving that Catholics believe in the same essential ideals as he does, he refused to admit that they are Christian.

Any ideas on how to deal with this problem if I encounter it in the future?

Ojuice5001

I'd like to say it's the fact that Catholics made the decisions about what books are canonical texts; in other words, Protestants owe the Bible itself to Catholics. That should be foolproof, but fundy logic might well object to this on the grounds that there are a few "apocryphal" texts that Catholics recognize and Protestants don't. After all, that decisively proves that they are two different religions, and the Protestants couldn't possibly be the ones who are wrong.

But it's worth a try.

Crucifiction

Ah, that does sound like a good idea. I had reminded him that Catholics were the only Christians in Western Europe for 1,500 years; but he pretty much ignored my point.

On the topic of the Apocrypha, unless I'm mistaken, aren't there several Protestant sects that accept portions of it as canonical?

Sarpedon

Take him into a catholic church, point at the big ol' crucifix, and ask, "Who's that guy up there?"

Plognark

I dunno, but I figure as long as they're arguing with each other about who's got the right interpretation of Jesus and scripture, they'll be slightly more inclined to leave people like me alone. :huh:

Godless Dave

Keep in mind that many Catholics don't think Protestants are Christians, they just aren't as vocal about it.

funinspace

Erhhh, that's not really quite true. The western "heretic weren't predominately squished until the 5th century. So at best it's a 1,000 years. As you implied, the eastern churches were never dominated by the RCC.

Not that I've ever read, but who knows. There are sects that do accept the Apocrypha, but they are eastern orthodox, or more like variants of the RCC, like the CEC.

As far a convincing a fundy Protestant, that can be pretty hard. Many of them think it requires a literal, big emotional, "born again" thang. And some of these people think RCs do not go thru this, so therefore they haven't been saved. Yes, it's squirrelly reasoning, but hard to break thru. I would say the best bet is to ask them what they think it takes to be saved, and then throw RCC theology in their face when it matches up. Though there are some who think that a full dunking baptism is required to be saved, even though this is hard to justify Biblically. And the RCC typically only does the rantizing (sprinkling) version of Baptism. So on this basis they could claim, within their dogma, that RCs are not saved. So you would be forced to debate theological matters of their faith.

Clivedurdle

Haven't Anglicans always included the apocrypha - I thought original KJV did as well.

My gut feeling is with Paisley on this! Catlics are all going to hell!

Actually aren't we all predestined and it is only a few plymouth brethren are getting there?

Do you not know that there are born again catholics walking around?

In the 1970's, catholics started getting filled with the holy spirit and talking in tongues, but without any born again testimonies! Caused some doctrinal shifts - evolutionary theology!

Crucifiction

LOL. But then, we all know the Anglican Church is the same as the RCC anyway.

funinspace

I don't know about the Anglicans myself. Yep, the KJV had it, but was shuffled to the latter area, and had some sort of footnotes about it. Interestingly the translations by Martin Luther first did this to Revelations as well. Either way, many of the Protestant Bibles had the Apocrypha until the late 19th century. Many Christians seem to have a very short sited historical perspective, considering their faith is 2,000 years old.