Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 05-31-2012, 07:46 PM

"The Gospel according to the Other Mary"

Quote:

...

"It was a very, very profoundly disturbing experience for me," said Adams, whose opera-oratorio "The Gospel According to the Other Mary" will have its world premiere Thursday at Walt Disney Concert Hall.

"I doubted whether my moral or spiritual powers were strong enough to try to take on this archetypal image, this event, which all the greatest artists in Western history, from Michelangelo to Johann Sebastian Bach to Bernini have dealt with. And then here's John Adams, a sort of secular liberal living in Berkeley, Calif., dealing with this."

...

What "strongly drew me to the story of the adult Jesus," Adams said, "was the fact that he spent his entire adult life surrounded by the most miserable of people — by homeless people, by the sick, by the deranged, by all the kind of people that we maybe walk by on the street and maybe reach in our pockets and give a dollar or $5 to but then are done with.

"And tragically these are also the people on whose backs budgets and acts of Congress today are being balanced. I think that this is a very meaningful story on a social level because Americans in this moment of national anxiety are basically beating up on the poor. We've always beat up on the poor, but now for some reason we've found the language that empowers us to abuse them even further.

Juststeve · 06-01-2012, 06:40 AM

Someone who thinks more carefully than Toto, that is to say a nonmyther, would have titled the thread "Why one person can't give up on a historical Jesus". To extrapolate from that one person to people in general is just the kind of sloppy thinking one expects of mythers.

Steve

Toto · 06-01-2012, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juststeve

Someone who thinks more carefully than Toto, that is to say a nonmyther, would have titled the thread "Why one person can't give up on a historical Jesus". To extrapolate from that one person to people in general is just the kind of sloppy thinking one expects of mythers.

Steve

Oh my. Such hostility so early in the morning over the title of a post. When you read "people" do you assume "all people everywhere?"

This particular artist - a product of his culture - reflects what I have read in many other sources. I am presenting this as an example, not a proof. I could come up with other examples - John Dominic Crossan, for example.

Of course there are other people who might have other takes on the Historical Jesus. Feel free to discuss.

aa5874 · 06-01-2012, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

"The Gospel according to the Other Mary"

Quote:

...

"It was a very, very profoundly disturbing experience for me," said Adams, whose opera-oratorio "The Gospel According to the Other Mary" will have its world premiere Thursday at Walt Disney Concert Hall.

"I doubted whether my moral or spiritual powers were strong enough to try to take on this archetypal image, this event, which all the greatest artists in Western history, from Michelangelo to Johann Sebastian Bach to Bernini have dealt with. And then here's John Adams, a sort of secular liberal living in Berkeley, Calif., dealing with this."

...

What "strongly drew me to the story of the adult Jesus," Adams said, "was the fact that he spent his entire adult life surrounded by the most miserable of people — by homeless people, by the sick, by the deranged, by all the kind of people that we maybe walk by on the street and maybe reach in our pockets and give a dollar or $5 to but then are done with.

"And tragically these are also the people on whose backs budgets and acts of Congress today are being balanced. I think that this is a very meaningful story on a social level because Americans in this moment of national anxiety are basically beating up on the poor. We've always beat up on the poor, but now for some reason we've found the language that empowers us to abuse them even further.

What I find disturbing is that there is so much propaganda being promoted.

Examine the very same link.

Quote:

The Mary depicted in Adams' "Gospel" is a complex and in many ways very contemporary heroine. The New Testament places her in the inner circle of Jesus' final days, at the Crucifixion, and at his burial. She also was the first person to witness Jesus' resurrection, according to Gospel accounts....

It is simply false that Mary witnessed the resurrection of Jesus according to Gospel accounts.

In the Gospels that is PRECISELY what did NOT happen.

Mary did NOT find the body of Jesus.

Sheshbazzar · 06-01-2012, 10:36 AM

NOBODY, anywhere in any of the New Testament writings were present to 'witness' the alleged 'resurrection' of Jebus.

According to the Gospel accounts, NO ONE ever saw this alleged 'resurrection' take place.

NO ONE human, 'Mary' or anyone else, ever observed him walk (or fly) out of that tomb.

Mandelbrot · 06-01-2012, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

NOBODY, anywhere in any of the New Testament writings were present to 'witness' the alleged 'resurrection' of Jebus.

According to the Gospel accounts, NO ONE ever saw this alleged 'resurrection' take place.

NO ONE human, 'Mary' or anyone else, ever observed him walk (or fly) out of that tomb.

According to the gospel of Peter, the resurrection of Jesus (after being supersized for 99 cents), two angels and a talking cross were witnessed by the guards at the tomb.

aa5874 · 06-01-2012, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandelbrot

According to the gospel of Peter, the resurrection of Jesus (after being supersized for 99 cents), two angels and a talking cross were witnessed by the guards at the tomb.

The Gospel of Peter

Quote:

[55] And having gone off, they found the sepulcher opened. And having come forward, they bent down there and saw there a certain young man seated in the middle of the sepulcher, comely and clothed with a splendid robe, who said to them: [56] 'Why have you come? Whom do you seek? Not that one who was crucified? He is risen and gone away. But if you do not believe, bend down and see the place where he lay, because he is not here. For he is risen and gone away to there whence he was sent.'

[57] Then the women fled frightened.

In the Gospel of Peter the women did NOT see Jesus resurrect and they FLED after they were shown the Empty tomb.

Sheshbazzar · 06-01-2012, 11:19 AM

Is 'The Gospel of Peter' a New Testament writing?

(I've thumbed it, but have never bought it. Not even for 99 cents.

)

Mandelbrot · 06-01-2012, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandelbrot

According to the gospel of Peter, the resurrection of Jesus (after being supersized for 99 cents), two angels and a talking cross were witnessed by the guards at the tomb.

In the Gospel of Peter the women did NOT see Jesus resurrect and they FLED after they were shown the Empty tomb.

You arrogant jerk. Where the hell did I say the women?

Mandelbrot · 06-01-2012, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Is 'The Gospel of Peter' a New Testament writing?

(I've thumbed it, but have never bought it. Not even for 99 cents.

)

It isn't canonical but that doesn't mean it isn't a gospel. There are many, many more than the four most people are familiar with.

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06-01-2012, 06:40 AM	#2
Juststeve Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas Texas Posts: 758	Someone who thinks more carefully than Toto, that is to say a nonmyther, would have titled the thread "Why one person can't give up on a historical Jesus". To extrapolate from that one person to people in general is just the kind of sloppy thinking one expects of mythers. Steve

06-01-2012, 10:36 AM	#5
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	NOBODY, anywhere in any of the New Testament writings were present to 'witness' the alleged 'resurrection' of Jebus. According to the Gospel accounts, NO ONE ever saw this alleged 'resurrection' take place. NO ONE human, 'Mary' or anyone else, ever observed him walk (or fly) out of that tomb.

06-01-2012, 11:19 AM	#8
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	Is 'The Gospel of Peter' a New Testament writing? (I've thumbed it, but have never bought it. Not even for 99 cents. )

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