Godfather

A book I am reading on Christian origins states that there are 10 well known non-christian writers that mention Jesus historically within 150 years of his life. The book really doesn't bother to mention all of the ten, but cites a few of the obvious (josephus, celsus, tacitus etc.)

What I am wondering is if these historical refferences hold any weight, and who these other writers are. The books biggest claim is that when you put these references together, you get a storyling that parrallels the gospels. Any help would be appreciated. :huh:

Godfather

Vorkosigan

It's horseshit. We really need a very serious reference article on this giving the details. The only real mention of Jesus is by Josephus, and that is hotly disputed. Celsus comes too late. And put together, there is no storyline that parallels the Gospels.

See www.earlychristianwritings.com and the Infidels library read up on Josephus, Tacitus, Suetonius, Mara Bar Serapion, Pliny, and Thallus. Offhand i can't think of other so-called references.

Vorkosigan

Godfather

Just for everyone's info the book is called "I don't have enough Faith to be an Atheist." It has some interesting arguments and honestly makes a strong case for theism. Only when it gets to the point where christianity is being demonstrated as the "true religion" do problems arise. :huh:

Also, are there any other good sites to look up stuff like this? Any good books to recommend? Thanks.

Godfather

justsumner

and Josephus is now proved to be a latter addition. The trouble is, if you are willing to fake a basis for your silly belief, isn't the fact that you fake it admiting, at least to yourself how absurd it is?

:banghead:

funinspace

Another point: Who cares? If the writer couldn't even have known someone who actually knew Jesus, then it's already third hand. After about 70 years after circa 30-34 AD, who really gives a rip... That 150 year/30,000 copies crap didn't make sense to me when I was a "true believer".

DaninGraniteCity

http://www.infidelguy.com/modules.ph...ewtopic&t=5522

This is a post at the Infidel Guy community forum about historical evidence for Jesus.

Here's Amazon Reviews of this book. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/cus...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

doc58

If you like to listen to lectures on CD or tape, Bart Ehrman, professor of religion at Univ of North Carolina has several excellent series.
go to the Teaching Company http://www.teach12.com/
All of his series are terrific.
"From Jesus to Constantine" tells the history of Christianity and discusses every extra biblical reference to Jesus. It is riveting.

If you don't like to listen to lectures, read Ehrman's books.
I was an inerrantist and his books have greatly enlightened and educated me.

justsumner

His ideas are a bit one-sided don't you think? My best selling book "Heretics" tells the same story, but comes to very different conclussions. Why do you suppose that is?

Answerer

I just come across a very good article not long ago. Enjoy.......

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread....333#post650333

doc58

justsumner,
For me to give a good response I would have to know what you think Ehrman says, why it is one-sided and what you say in your book and how these differ. I have listened to Ehrman and read him extensively and have always been impressed with his objectivity and committment to the historical perspective.Unfortunately I have never heard of your book but congratulations on the mostly positive comments on Amazon.

Ehrman readily admits that the early references to Jesus, if real, give us no useful information about him. He does not seem to be a mythicist, giving good reasons I think, especially his criterion of dissimilarity.