Johnny Skeptic

The New Testament says that the Pharisees said that Jesus healed people by the power of Beelzebub. That is a lie. The Pharisees knew the Old Testament quite well. They knew that the Old Testament always attributes healing people to God, never to the Devil. If the Devil could actually heal people, why would he have used Jesus to heal people? If the Devil had been healing Jews all along, Jews would have given God the credit for it, in which case the Devil would not have wanted to heal Jews.

It is certainly reasonable to assume that the messiah would have wanted to heal people, and that he would have had the power to heal people.

exmormon

Can you say it's provable when you might be assuming too much about how a nonexistent character, the devil, should behave and be motivated? What if Jesus was a false messiah and the devil was using him to lead the Jews astray? In that case it would be beneficial to the devil for the Jews to attribute Jesus' healing powers to God. And he wouldn't have had to heal Jews all along, just step in at the right moment with Jesus to throw a twist into the patterns the Pharisees thought they had nailed.

Johnny Skeptic

But I discussed what the Pharisees believed, not whether or not the Devil exists.

Let me put it this way: If I had been a Pharisee, and had seen Jesus heal people, I believed that the Devil was responsible, I would have been quite pleased not only that the Devil was healing people, but I would also hope that the Devil would heal all of the sick people in the world. I still would not have become a follower of Jesus because I would have known that he did not fulfill any Old Testament prophecies.

If person gives you $100, what difference does it make who gives it to you?

I should have stated my arguments this way in the first place.

storytime

Well, there you have it. Two sects of Jews debating one another. Who was right and who was wrong? Why did Jesus say he was sent to save the lost sheep in the house of Israel when the whole house already had and knew their laws, and of which established their salvation[life] or punishment in death for disobedience?

Had Jesus not read the OT scripts whereof God declared that there was no savior, no mediator, no messiah beside him, that as God he stood alone?

Why was Jesus not satisfied in being just a teacher (rabbi) of law? Was there anything else ever declared that Jewish men should do?

Has anyone compared the saying in Genesis from the serpent to Eve and that of Jesus to his fellow Jews?

1. "thou shalt not surely die". (OT Genesis)

2. "those that believe in me shall never die". (Jesus in NT)

Why would the Jews have need to believe in Jesus when they already had the word of God to live by?

mountainman

The NT might be incorrect.
Are you using one of those "mutilated bibles"?
One that does not include the apochrypha?

See TAOPATTA.
The Acts of Peter and the Twelve Apostles.
Dug up at Nag Hammadi.

All about the name of the Healer Lithargoel.
But is Lithargoel Jesus?
And did Jesus carry an unguent bag?
Did Jesus have a physicians's assistant
who carried a bag of herbs?

This text indicates, if you believe Lithargoel = Jesus,
that Jesus used medicine to perform healings just
like other physicians of the era.


Best wishes,


Pete brown

Johnny Skeptic

I am certain that the Pharisees did not say that they believed that Jesus healed people by the power of Beelzebub.

andrewcriddle

Tosefta Hullin (Shehitat Hullin) may be relevant 2:22-23 This seems to imply a belief among the early rabbis that the name of Jesus is powerful to heal. But this healing is outside God's covenant and and a Jew makes use of it at the gravest spiritual peril. This healing can save your life but it is better to die.

Andrew Criddle

No Robots

Johnny has the same thread in GRD for some reason. My answer to him there was that there are plenty of OT prohibitions against necromancy. It is Christ who points out that good must come from good, and that shuts the Pharisees up.

No Robots

Very nice indeed.