Eckz

What about all the humans before Jesus? Are they damned to hell? For what?

What about all the animals? Or are they devout Christians too?

Why does God hand out infinite punishments for finite crimes?



I'd like to hear a Christian rebuttal of these questions

Jehanne

I was a former "Christian". Okay, here we go:

No. They could be "saved" through "perfect contrition". That is, they could see "god" in Nature and the "holy spirit" would infuse their soul with "grace" and they could be "saved".

Animals do not have souls. Never mind Gorilla or Chimpanzee culture (or Neanderthal, Homo erectus, and that new species!)

Because he is a giant, cosmic asshole.

Regards,

Don

Eckz

Animals don't have souls? Really... Wouldn't evolution go against that? eg. humans evolved from animal x with no soul, and suddenly had a soul?

I read recently about an experiment that was done where researchers took a part of a rat's brain, and hooked it up to a computer with electric connectors and it was able to learn how to fly a plane in a flight simulator on the computer. If we were to do that with a human brain, would the 'soul' be cut in half? Would the brain controlling the plane have no soul or would a new soul be created when you extract brain matter? Also, what would happen with one's 'soul' if you were to be cloned? too many holes in this soul business

Magus55

Saved by faith.

Who knows, but apparently animals weren't given souls so they don't have to worry about salvation.

Who said its a finite crime? The soul is infinite, and I would say theologically, your morality and conscience, as well as your motives are part of the infinite soul. And do you not consider some actions to be infinite? If someone murders someone else, they are committing a crime with infinite consequence. They ended that persons life for all eternity. How is that finite? Consequences and motives are important too you know - not just the physical act.

Vorkosigan

Seems to fit better here.

Dark Virtue

Magus, can you explain what "saved by faith" means.

Were all those people killed in the Flood "saved by faith"?

What about the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah? Were they "saved by faith" too?

If not, who exactly was saved by faith and who wasn't?

Jehanne

For them as well as for us... That is the context that I used the word "soul" in...

inquisitive01

According to the original languages of the Bible, both animals and humans ARE souls, while the "spirit" (that which gives a soul life) is breath.

For more on the apparent misconceptions of "hell" (Hades/Sheol, or the grave) and Gehenna see the page at http://www.ucgstp.org/lit/booklets/heavenhell/soul.html. You may note that the ones who "have their part in the lake of fire (Gehenna)" are to be destroyed (rather than punished forever) in this fire (the second, and final death).

Eckz

WTF? Assuming that 'the soul is infinite' (whatever the hell that means), how does that justify or having anything to do with infinite punishment for a crime that can be as small as not believing in the correct God?

Murder is different, but murder isn't the only way to get into hell.

Symptom

another question is what happens to all the people who live and die without ever hearing of the god of christianity, and therefore never have a chance to gain "faith" in him? are they condemned to hell for the crime of being born in the wrong place at the wrong time?