Freethought & Rationalism Archive

shirley knott · 06-28-2007, 05:12 AM

Dave, you have asserted that there is a 2+ mile thick sediment layer, claimed to have been laid by the flood of Noah, ALL OVER THE WORLD.
OK, so where in Egypt can I find any trace of this 2+ mile thick layer of sediment?
I *will* keep asking until I get an answer.

no hugs for thugs,
Shirley Knott

06-28-2007, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Anderson

It very much looks as though afdave is simply taking the isolated bits of Rohl's chronology that he can use to support his theory, and is ignoring that these bits are part of a whole that contradicts his theory.

That's our Davey.

:devil:

Pappy Jack · 06-28-2007, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mung bean

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Anderson

It very much looks as though afdave is simply taking the isolated bits of Rohl's chronology that he can use to support his theory, and is ignoring that these bits are part of a whole that contradicts his theory.

That's our Davey.

:devil:

Yes, over at richarddawkins I was trying without success to get Dave to realize that Rohl's controversial chronology, even if it was accepted in full, would do little or nothing to support Smyth's Flood and Dispersion dates.

Calilasseia · 06-28-2007, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Fourthly, there is good evidence that the great civilizations of China and Egypt DID NOT EXIST until after the date of the Tower of Babel. See the end of my Formal Flood Debate at RD.net.

I've just received this E-Mail from the British Museum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renee Friedman, British Museum

Dear ************,

Please find below several websites and links that will give you the information that you require to counter any claim that there is no habitation in Egypt prior to 4000BC. At the first link provided you will find a time line for Egypt that lays out the different periods, and at the same site are several artefacts attesting to this habitation that were obtained during scientific excavation. Other links are to objects from prior to 4000BC in the British Museum, and the final link is an article by a major scientist who has spent his life studying habitation in the deserts around Egypt (which weren't deserts back then), dating back to approx 10,000BC.

I hope these will be helpful to you.

Sincerely

Renee Friedman

Dept of Ancient Egypt and Sudan

Time line of Egypt showing the periods prior to 4000BC

At same site there are many artefacts dating from the early periods illustrated--and if you click on the various sites and names that will give you more information.

For statue from Jordan dating to approx 7000BC

For pottery collected in Egypt attesting to habitation in area dating back to 10,000BC

For skeletal material from Egypt dated to 13,000 before present.

Article about work in the deserts of the Sahara and finding evidence for civilization and habitation in 9th millennium BC.

Note that the middle three links point to information about actual archaeological artefacts and material that are extant in the collection of the British Museum and which have been reliably dated by a range of cross-correlated techniques (oh look, we're back to those calibration curves again!).

So, given that the British Museum has within its extensive collection a range of skeletal material of early Egyptian humans dating back to 13,000 BC, and ceramic artefacts dating back to 10,000 BC, I would contend that there has been some form of civilisation, and furthermore a continuity of civilisation in that region for a good 12,000 years - a time period that is, according to Dave, double the age of the entire universe.

So, I now await the inevitable reply from Dave that the esteemed individuals from the British Museum are one of the following:

[1] Mistaken about the age of their artefacts because their dating techniques are wrong;

[2] Mistaken about the age of their artefacts because Genesis says they're wrong;

[3] Part of the Great Darwinian Conspiracy™ and deliberately lying to us all.

Pappy Jack · 06-28-2007, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calilasseia

........So, I now await the inevitable reply from Dave that the esteemed individuals from the British Museum are one of the following:

[1] Mistaken about the age of their artefacts because their dating techniques are wrong;

[2] Mistaken about the age of their artefacts because Genesis says they're wrong;

[3] Part of the Great Darwinian Conspiracy™ and deliberately lying to us all.

Or perm any two from three, or maybe just all three rolled into one big gob of self-deluding deceitfulness....:Cheeky:

ericmurphy · 06-28-2007, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calilasseia

So, I now await the inevitable reply from Dave that the esteemed individuals from the British Museum are one of the following:

[1] Mistaken about the age of their artefacts because their dating techniques are wrong;

[2] Mistaken about the age of their artefacts because Genesis says they're wrong;

[3] Part of the Great Darwinian Conspiracy™ and deliberately lying to us all.

This is what Dave will zero in on:

Quote:

Dates are only certain after 664 BC. The earliest dates are often very unsecure.

Dave will take that to mean that early dates could be off by more than a factor of two, which is what he would need.

Steviepinhead · 06-28-2007, 11:34 AM

Philitis, dave? Shepherd or the Frank Lloyd Wright of the Great Pyramid?

Any evidence for the latter position?

I mean, without privileging Philitis into some kind of fount of beyond-Egyptian knowledge of architecture and "cosmic" measurements, what difference does any of this stuff about the mega-coolness of the Great Pyramid even make for your Creation-Flood-Babel worldview?

Aren't you ignoring the "elephant in the room," here, Mr. Dave: some basis for believing there's a link between the Great Pyramid's alleged wondrousness and the crypto-cosmic knowledge preserved by the Israelites through Flood and Dispersal?

Hex · 06-28-2007, 12:19 PM

If there was a 2+ mile-thick layer of sediment that covered all pre-existing civilizations, which line of Noah's family were the Homo erectus in Africa, China and the Middle East from? They're not under 2+ miles of sediment ... :Cheeky:

Has that even been thrown into the AFDave mix?

AFDave, do you have an answer?

Steviepinhead · 06-28-2007, 12:29 PM

Dave will, I predict--assuming he ever "answers" the Homo erectus query at all--tell you that they are dead apes, not proto-humans.

Of course, that doesn't deal with why the heck they are eroding out of the top of the geologic column... But maybe dave will just say that they were apes who swam good enough to almost, but not quite, outlast the sedimenting-out phase of the Flood (frankly, I prefer the usage "Teh Flud," but I wouldn't wish to be construed as intending to convey any personal ridicule, so I abstain).

What there was about the morphology or physiology of these particular "apes" that made them such superior aquanauts--and why these mprpho-physiological specializations failed them just as the Flood was beginning to recede (to, uh, wherever it went to...), might be other interesting questions, in some alternate universe, somewhere.

ericmurphy · 06-28-2007, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hex

If there was a 2+ mile-thick layer of sediment that covered all pre-existing civilizations, which line of Noah's family were the Homo erectus in Africa, China and the Middle East from? They're not under 2+ miles of sediment ... :Cheeky:

Has that even been thrown into the AFDave mix?

AFDave, do you have an answer?

Dave apparently believes that all homind fossils are merely of deformed H. sapiens. Well, he says something about them all being either fully ape or fully human, but that doesn't make much sense, because they're all fully ape, and some are fully human.

06-28-2007, 12:19 PM	#448
Hex Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: www.rationalpagans.com Posts: 445	Has this one been tackled? If there was a 2+ mile-thick layer of sediment that covered all pre-existing civilizations, which line of Noah's family were the Homo erectus in Africa, China and the Middle East from? They're not under 2+ miles of sediment ... :Cheeky: Has that even been thrown into the AFDave mix? AFDave, do you have an answer?

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06-28-2007, 05:12 AM	#441
shirley knott Regular Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 416	Dave, you have asserted that there is a 2+ mile thick sediment layer, claimed to have been laid by the flood of Noah, ALL OVER THE WORLD. OK, so where in Egypt can I find any trace of this 2+ mile thick layer of sediment? I will keep asking until I get an answer. no hugs for thugs, Shirley Knott

06-28-2007, 11:34 AM	#447
Steviepinhead Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,642	Philitis, dave? Shepherd or the Frank Lloyd Wright of the Great Pyramid? Any evidence for the latter position? I mean, without privileging Philitis into some kind of fount of beyond-Egyptian knowledge of architecture and "cosmic" measurements, what difference does any of this stuff about the mega-coolness of the Great Pyramid even make for your Creation-Flood-Babel worldview? Aren't you ignoring the "elephant in the room," here, Mr. Dave: some basis for believing there's a link between the Great Pyramid's alleged wondrousness and the crypto-cosmic knowledge preserved by the Israelites through Flood and Dispersal?

06-28-2007, 12:29 PM	#449
Steviepinhead Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,642	Dave will, I predict--assuming he ever "answers" the Homo erectus query at all--tell you that they are dead apes, not proto-humans. Of course, that doesn't deal with why the heck they are eroding out of the top of the geologic column... But maybe dave will just say that they were apes who swam good enough to almost, but not quite, outlast the sedimenting-out phase of the Flood (frankly, I prefer the usage "Teh Flud," but I wouldn't wish to be construed as intending to convey any personal ridicule, so I abstain). What there was about the morphology or physiology of these particular "apes" that made them such superior aquanauts--and why these mprpho-physiological specializations failed them just as the Flood was beginning to recede (to, uh, wherever it went to...), might be other interesting questions, in some alternate universe, somewhere.

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