Freethought & Rationalism Archive

stephan huller · 02-15-2012, 06:03 PM

Quote:

but both the LXX and SP are attempts to harmonize the biblical text

The Samaritan text and the LXX are likely older or at least independent of the Masoretic text. The consistent assumption that what is familiar to us is the original of anything because - presumably - we are the center of the universe is annoying.

Chili · 02-15-2012, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

The historical answer is that they were never in Egypt at all.

Apologetic attempts to resolve the contradiction vary.

Here is AIG on the question. Not a very convincing answer. One might even say it sounds strained and desperate.

Eypts is a state of mind, and wherever 'saved-sinners' are is where Eqypt is at, who, as per Galatains 5:4 have fallen from God's favor and therefore in Eqypt..

John Kesler · 02-15-2012, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

Quote:

but both the LXX and SP are attempts to harmonize the biblical text

The Samaritan text and the LXX are likely older or at least independent of the Masoretic text.

The DSS, 4QExod, also says that Egypt is where the sojourning took place:

Quote:

Now the time that the children of Israel dwelt in the land of Egypt was four hundred and thirty years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

The consistent assumption that what is familiar to us is the original of anything because - presumably - we are the center of the universe is annoying.

Not as annoying as unfounded assumptions.

stephan huller · 02-15-2012, 06:19 PM

Philo, Stephen and Josephus put the length of the Exodus at 400 years = x or tav the symbol put on the Israelites to leave Egypt.

stephan huller · 02-15-2012, 06:21 PM

So the Masoretic text is the source for the SP and the LXX? Am I understanding you correctly?

stephan huller · 02-15-2012, 06:22 PM

The number four hundred is clearly connected with the tau (= x) which liberates the people.

steve_bnk · 02-15-2012, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

The historical answer is that they were never in Egypt at all.

Apologetic attempts to resolve the contradiction vary.

Here is AIG on the question. Not a very convincing answer. One might even say it sounds strained and desperate.

Eypts is a state of mind, and wherever 'saved-sinners' are is where Eqypt is at, who, as per Galatains 5:4 have fallen from God's favor and therefore in Eqypt..

The bible as metaphor for the anciernt Jews. We have no way of knowing if the all the writings were intnded to be literal.

Job was probably written as metaphor for Jews in captivity.

judge · 02-15-2012, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duvduv

That's fine if you want to accept the word of archeologists who are neither omnipotent nor omniscient and who are constrained by the laws of time and space. I have no problem with that and the accompanying faith that it demands. It's only a problem when folks get trapped into that box such that the limitations of human attainment become divine qualities.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

That's true of much in the area of Biblical studies, but not here. Enough trained archaeologists have spend so much time looking for evidence of the Exodus and have found nothing, that most people feel confident saying that the Exodus never happened. Just like there was no world wide flood, the sun didn't stand still in the sky for an extra day, etc.

But are any archeologists claiming to have divine qualities? Aren't they just trying to come up with a theory that best matches the evidence?

stephan huller · 02-15-2012, 06:43 PM

I am curious what the difficulty is. The traditional way of calculating the 'time in Egypt' is from the birth of Isaac. You claims about Exodus 12:40 AGAIN ASSUME THE PRIMACY OF THE MASORETIC TEXT. If you stop assuming things you actually see what is there. The SP and LXX reads:

Quote:

Now the sojourning of the children of Israel and of their fathers which they had dwelt in the land of Canaan and in Egypt was four hundred and thirty years.

'And of their fathers' could include Abraham and Isaac. I will ask my Samaritan friend how this is read but I assume my interpretation would be followed.

Duvduv · 02-15-2012, 06:49 PM

They can say whatever they like, but they cannot claim to be the final arbiter of fact and fiction. As I just wrote

Quote:

Originally Posted by judge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duvduv

That's fine if you want to accept the word of archeologists who are neither omnipotent nor omniscient and who are constrained by the laws of time and space. I have n6o problem with that and the accompanywing faith that it demands. It's only a problem when folks get trapped into that box such that the limitations of human attainment become divine qualities.

But are any archeologists claiming to have divine qualities? Aren't they just trying to come up with a theory that best matches the evidence?

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02-15-2012, 06:19 PM	#24
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Philo, Stephen and Josephus put the length of the Exodus at 400 years = x or tav the symbol put on the Israelites to leave Egypt.

02-15-2012, 06:21 PM	#25
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	So the Masoretic text is the source for the SP and the LXX? Am I understanding you correctly?

02-15-2012, 06:22 PM	#26
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	The number four hundred is clearly connected with the tau (= x) which liberates the people.

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